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Supercharging 2.2 Next Stage


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#1 Gibby

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Posted 12 March 2020 - 02:43 PM

I currently have the 2.2 engine with supercharger, producing around 240bhp... apparently.
I've been trying to find some information, out of general interest, on
a) what might be possible in terms of the maximum power and boost one might run on the (unopened) standard engine, (I presume not all that much more...), and -
B) what tried and tested routes of rebuilding and strengthening the engine, general cost;(is this known as stage 3, stage 4 etc..?) and the tuners who would do that work?

#2 Ivor

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Posted 12 March 2020 - 03:20 PM

Loads of build threads about, the forum Search is not great but a Google search will usually get you in the right place, a few experts on here wrt SC, I'm sure they will chip in shortly...I'm turbo stage 4 so way ahead of the SC mob

#3 techieboy

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Posted 12 March 2020 - 03:32 PM

You need to decide where you are ultimately aiming and we need to know where you are starting from, hardware wise.

 

The M62 will go up to around 300bhp with the addition of a smaller pulley and possibly some beefier injectors (assuming you are charge cooled and have a vaguely decent exhaust system). £300'ish

 

However, 260bhp is considered the safe limit for the rods in the standard engine so you'll be needing uprated rods at a minimum and you might as well get some forged pistons to give some headroom/safety margin for further mods. £2k'ish

 

After that, the M62 is too inefficient to do anything much else with and you're looking at fitting TVS1320 supercharger which can potentially take you to around 400bhp. +£2.5k'ish

 

This then starts to risk the cylinder liners and they'll need removing and upgrading and at this point you start looking at options of increasing the capacity to 2.4 litres with a different crank (and pistons and rods) where you can go even further. +£5k'ish

 

If you're really looking to p*ss away ever increasing amounts of money, you can fit an even bigger TVS charger and start looking at 500bhp+. +£3k'ish

 

All of the above assumes you have the OBDTuner reflash of the ECU to make it DIY mappable and configurable for hardware changes. £800'ish.

 

It all adds up, rapidly.



#4 sford

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Posted 12 March 2020 - 04:05 PM

If you must modify it, I'd suggest other things to make the car faster than more power. As mentioned, 260bhp is considered the 'safe' mark on the standard engine.

 

Change of gearbox, lightened flywheel will address acceleration. Along with a balancer delete but that's an engine out job if I recall correctly. 

 

What tyres/brakes are you running? Has your car had a suspension refresh yet? Worth checking out as suspension and bushes can change how fast the car is. 

 

You can always look at things like the intake filter and the exhaust. The more expensive ITG airbox quietens the SC whine whilst being really free flowing. Change of manifold to the tullet may release more torque over what you currently have. 



#5 The Batman

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Posted 12 March 2020 - 06:26 PM

pm me for parts :)



#6 smiley

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Posted 12 March 2020 - 06:46 PM

sillyvxchart.jpg



#7 Gibby

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Posted 12 March 2020 - 09:12 PM

Thanks guys that's the kind of info I was hoping for.
The car is set up on Gaz gold coilovers with track (not sure how long ago) geo and corner weighting apparently.
It has M62 with chargecooler.
Actually it feels very quick with snappy response, and I have no reason to require more power, other than I have had several cars tuned for big power before and it is somewhat thrilling/addictive to do...
I have to say the VX has long impressed me for its amazing potential, feather weight things with very substantial engines.
The relative cheapness of tuning is amazing really.
Batman - what cost, approx., for the stage 3 (engine work mapping etc... On top of my current SC and Charge cooler (think it's 2.5 inch exhaust on there currently...) For 300bish bhp?

#8 Rosssco

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Posted 13 March 2020 - 08:42 AM

sillyvxchart.jpg

Was waiting for Smiley and his chart :lol: He loves that chart!



#9 Foxy

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Posted 13 March 2020 - 09:28 AM

Loads of build threads about, the forum Search is not great but a Google search will usually get you in the right place


How dare you! :lol:

ChrisUK (Redman) is your man. Type116
Or Batman for parts. Max88

chinky chinky

#10 Gibby

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Posted 13 March 2020 - 10:29 AM

That chart was the kind of thing I was looking for really. Some kind of a simple summary of the process and approximate costs involved at each point.
It gives me an idea of where I would be if the engine was to fail at some stage and I could consider rebuilding perhaps and adding some power.
On this matter I am also wondering about the clutch. At this stage should I be expecting it to slip or be problematic? I did think when I drove the car last night that the revs rose slightly too quickly on boost, in 3rd to 4th gear at one point... without feeling power through wheels.. Not sure if I imagined that I guess I'll find out soon enough.

Edited by Gibby, 13 March 2020 - 10:29 AM.


#11 pete-r

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Posted 13 March 2020 - 11:00 AM

240bhp on factory clutch should be ok for power but the cars are getting older so when replacing you can fit other options without going race spec. While the box is off it makes sense to decide on a lighter flywheel and taller final drive if you want more pep.

I was in the same boat a few years ago and went a different way with some lighter parts because I wanted better laptimes rather than straight line speed. Also if you blew the engine (it happens) you could replace it for peanuts compared to a forged motor.

Personal opinion but I'd swap out the GAZ and go quantum/nitron for an improvement.

To be honest though the best investment is in you as a driver. A faster driver would outpace me in an NA...

Edited by pete-r, 13 March 2020 - 11:01 AM.


#12 smiley

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Posted 13 March 2020 - 11:30 AM

Was waiting for Smiley and his chart :lol: He loves that chart!

 

tenor.gif
 



#13 Nev

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Posted 15 March 2020 - 03:16 PM

 

sillyvxchart.jpg

Was waiting for Smiley and his chart :lol: He loves that chart!

 

 

I don't know who wrote that chart up, but it's thoroughly misleading for so called "VXT S5" which would be circa £13,000 if you DIYed it and more like £18,000 from a professional place like CS.
 


Edited by Nev, 15 March 2020 - 03:20 PM.


#14 Gibby

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Posted 15 March 2020 - 05:25 PM



sillyvxchart.jpg

Was waiting for Smiley and his chart :lol: He loves that chart!
I don't know who wrote that chart up, but it's thoroughly misleading for so called "VXT S5" which would be circa £13,000 if you DIYed it and more like £18,000 from a professional place like CS.

How are we to read the chart though..?
I mean, with that stage 5 for instance be the additional price, on top of some of the parts/work from previous stages, ie the cost accumulates as you progress?

What I am mainly wondering is is what the cost might be if I wanted to have an engine built with stronger rods and perhaps valvetrain work
And further to that what would the cost be (for those who may have done it) for some work on achieving closer to 'square' with bore and/or piston changes, allowing higher revs? (I noticed that the ITB crowd seemed to have achieved this type of thing) does anyone have a higher revving (7500+) forced induction setup?
It's all really just stuff I am wondering about out of basic interest.

I find that the search facility on this forum is not all that great at bringing up up a lot... There must be lots of information considering the number of years the forum has been running.
As mentioned, I sometimes think I get more from doing a Google search and finding the forum articles that way.

Edited by Gibby, 15 March 2020 - 05:27 PM.


#15 techieboy

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Posted 15 March 2020 - 07:10 PM


As mentioned, I sometimes think I get more from doing a Google search and finding the forum articles that way.

 

 

As with just about every forum on earth, that is the correct answer. Search is Googles raison d'être. Stick a "site:vx220.org.uk" in the search terms to refine the results even further.



#16 smiley

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Posted 15 March 2020 - 07:26 PM

 

I don't know who wrote that chart up, but it's thoroughly misleading for so called "VXT S5" which would be circa £13,000 if you DIYed it and more like £18,000 from a professional place like CS.

 

 

Can you break down the 13k details?
Especially the the 350-400 versus the 600.



#17 Nev

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Posted 16 March 2020 - 10:59 AM

 

 

I don't know who wrote that chart up, but it's thoroughly misleading for so called "VXT S5" which would be circa £13,000 if you DIYed it and more like £18,000 from a professional place like CS.

 

 

Can you break down the 13k details?
Especially the the 350-400 versus the 600.

 

 

There is little differnce between what you have to do to make 400HP or 600HP on the Z20LEx engine really, perhaps £1000 of extra headwork to make 600 HP efficiently (without having to resort to huge boost).

 

Some cost info here, seems I was mistaken, it cost me £11,700 (back in 2010): https://sites.google...power/parts-job

 

 

 

 


Edited by Nev, 16 March 2020 - 11:01 AM.


#18 Gibby

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Posted 16 March 2020 - 11:10 AM

Performance on these little cars at that power must be phenomenal, amazing what you can do at a comparatively low cost. It would be fun to do.
However now that we're apparently on the cusp of an electric motor revolution (and whatever may come in terms of the DIY/aftermarket possibilities and crazy power potential) it just seems to have raised question marks as to the point of pouring money into big power builds.
Though I presume internal combustion will always retain a charm of it's own and have a following.

#19 smiley

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Posted 16 March 2020 - 11:19 AM

 

 

 

I don't know who wrote that chart up, but it's thoroughly misleading for so called "VXT S5" which would be circa £13,000 if you DIYed it and more like £18,000 from a professional place like CS.

 

 

Can you break down the 13k details?
Especially the the 350-400 versus the 600.

 

 

There is little differnce between what you have to do to make 400HP or 600HP on the Z20LEx engine really, perhaps £1000 of extra headwork to make 600 HP efficiently (without having to resort to huge boost).

 

Some cost info here, seems I was mistaken, it cost me £11,700 (back in 2010): https://sites.google...power/parts-job

 

 

So, 6500 to 12k would be a better estimate for 350 to 600 bhp?

 



#20 Nev

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Posted 16 March 2020 - 02:34 PM

 

 

 

 

I don't know who wrote that chart up, but it's thoroughly misleading for so called "VXT S5" which would be circa £13,000 if you DIYed it and more like £18,000 from a professional place like CS.

 

 

Can you break down the 13k details?
Especially the the 350-400 versus the 600.

 

 

There is little differnce between what you have to do to make 400HP or 600HP on the Z20LEx engine really, perhaps £1000 of extra headwork to make 600 HP efficiently (without having to resort to huge boost).

 

Some cost info here, seems I was mistaken, it cost me £11,700 (back in 2010): https://sites.google...power/parts-job

 

 

So, 6500 to 12k would be a better estimate for 350 to 600 bhp?

 

 

Roughly, yes. If you look at my costs list it includes a LSD and other costs not vital for a big power build.
 






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