69 replies to this topic

[speedster]

"Which part is fabbed by you?"

Paul, There is not need to make any changes the manifold itself, which comes beautifully TIG welded and should really be hung on the wall as a work of art. However, the downpipe (two into one section) does require major restructing for our application. You can see from the crappy MIG welding that I did that bit. It takes a long time, a lot of swearing/cups of tea and you need a powerful welder. My recommendation would be to farm it out to a professional TIG welder then it would look as good as the manifold. Since Courtenay have some doubts about its suitability with the blower, it would be better for anyone considering the blower option not to order a Tsudo manifold until we see how it works on my car.

Looks great! The Tsudo is been used on many FI Ecotecs in the US so can't see why it would cause a problem this side of the pond...

[MAP18W]

"Which part is fabbed by you?"

Paul, There is not need to make any changes the manifold itself, which comes beautifully TIG welded and should really be hung on the wall as a work of art. However, the downpipe (two into one section) does require major restructing for our application. You can see from the crappy MIG welding that I did that bit. It takes a long time, a lot of swearing/cups of tea and you need a powerful welder. My recommendation would be to farm it out to a professional TIG welder then it would look as good as the manifold. Since Courtenay have some doubts about its suitability with the blower, it would be better for anyone considering the blower option not to order a Tsudo manifold until we see how it works on my car.

Yeah, i remember them saying they lost power with the regal manifold, but i can't help thinking it has to come down to the mapping... More flow has got to equal more power?

This was quite a while back now, however if my memory serves me correct the issue it was more down to how it collects and the pulse legths with the compressor equiped car, the Weapon R manifold on paper is not best suited for the same reason, however we are going to try it on Griffo's to see what will happen. The exhaust manifold that has worked quite well is the dbilas exhaust manifold, however the down side to this is that even more heavy than the standard item so I'm told which is a pity.

[MAP18W]

Here I was thinking more money to be spent

So with standard rods ect and with not changing the rev limit, any idea what you could get out of this engine and still have an everyday RELIABLE car

Changing rods may well be something for future stages.........

With regards to Stage 2 the peak power on the SC conversion is made at the rev limiter and peak power would be more if we increased the rev limit, but we choose not to. We cap the bhp at around the 240 or so mark simply because this is both reliable and durable. Bear in mind there are some 46 conversions done between us and Hitec.

[NickB787]

Here I was thinking more money to be spent

So with standard rods ect and with not changing the rev limit, any idea what you could get out of this engine and still have an everyday RELIABLE car

Changing rods may well be something for future stages.........

With regards to Stage 2 the peak power on the SC conversion is made at the rev limiter and peak power would be more if we increased the rev limit, but we choose not to. We cap the bhp at around the 240 or so mark simply because this is both reliable and durable. Bear in mind there are some 46 conversions done between us and Hitec.

Thats great I like those words reliable and durable,


Stage 3

[slindborg]

any idea on the kind of milage driven (in harsh way) to fully itterate the durability of the conversion? are we into 100K miles yet?

[paulf-cam]

This was quite a while back now, however if my memory serves me correct the issue it was more down to how it collects and the pulse legths with the compressor equiped car, the Weapon R manifold on paper is not best suited for the same reason, however we are going to try it on Griffo's to see what will happen. The exhaust manifold that has worked quite well is the dbilas exhaust manifold, however the down side to this is that even more heavy than the standard item so I'm told which is a pity.

Surely, equal length runners is the ideal situation for a manifold, since you minimuse pulse collisions?

Maybe its the cams causing the problem, don't know how much overlap the NA cams run, probably not ideal for a supercharged application...

Ta, Paul.

[griffo]

I apologise, "deemed" was perhaps the wrong word. I was not trying to imply the blower conversion NEEDED uprated rods. I'm sure the standard rods are fine since it's generally revs which kill rods rather than torque. However, the Eagle rods are such beautiful pieces of kit and, at today's dollar/sterling prices and since I had the head off anyway to fit Courtenay's decompression plate, it was no big deal just to drop the sump and pop some in.

[Jon]

This was quite a while back now, however if my memory serves me correct the issue it was more down to how it collects and the pulse legths with the compressor equiped car, the Weapon R manifold on paper is not best suited for the same reason, however we are going to try it on Griffo's to see what will happen. The exhaust manifold that has worked quite well is the dbilas exhaust manifold, however the down side to this is that even more heavy than the standard item so I'm told which is a pity.

Surely, equal length runners is the ideal situation for a manifold, since you minimuse pulse collisions?

Maybe its the cams causing the problem, don't know how much overlap the NA cams run, probably not ideal for a supercharged application...

Ta, Paul.

It was not the length that was the problem, it was the way it collected, as it is like the OE unit 1& 2 together and 3&4 together the best for a supercharged engine is 1&4 and 2&3 As said this is all on paper, as we have never tried the Weapon R, due to customers not wanting to cut the boot area. However as Mark said we will give it a go, hopefully it will be good.

Edited by Jon, 05 December 2006 - 03:42 PM.

[paulf-cam]

It was not the length that was the problem, it was the way it collected, as it is like the OE unit 1& 2 together and 3&4 together the best for a supercharged engine is 1&4 and 2&3 As said this is all on paper, as we have never tried the Weapon R, due to customers not wanting to cut the boot area. However as Mark said we will give it a go, hopefully it will be good.

Forgive me if i'm asking something a little dumb here (starting to get out of my knowledge comfort zone ) but i don't see why the way the runners are collected should have any effect on performance:

Equal length runners means gas takes the same amount of time to get to the collecter from each cylinder, so because each cylinder fires at a different time, you never get any exhaust pulse collisions at the collectors because they slightly out of synch with each other?

Ta, Paul.

[Jon]

It was not the length that was the problem, it was the way it collected, as it is like the OE unit 1& 2 together and 3&4 together the best for a supercharged engine is 1&4 and 2&3 As said this is all on paper, as we have never tried the Weapon R, due to customers not wanting to cut the boot area. However as Mark said we will give it a go, hopefully it will be good.

Forgive me if i'm asking something a little dumb here (starting to get out of my knowledge comfort zone ) but i don't see why the way the runners are collected should have any effect on performance:

Equal length runners means gas takes the same amount of time to get to the collecter from each cylinder, so because each cylinder fires at a different time, you never get any exhaust pulse collisions at the collectors because they slightly out of synch with each other?

Ta, Paul.

Blimey Paul you are getting me thinking now....The the engine fires 1342 3&4 are close and 2&1 is close on the firing cycle. Equel runners will of coarse help but if the back pressure in the exhaust is to high then this set up could lead to problems in which case the Weapon R with 1&4 and 2&3 would be better. Its on a small issue, but we are getting close with back pressure on the current range of aftermarket exhausts.

[paulf-cam]

Blimey Paul you are getting me thinking now....The the engine fires 1342 3&4 are close and 2&1 is close on the firing cycle. Equel runners will of coarse help but if the back pressure in the exhaust is to high then this set up could lead to problems in which case the Weapon R with 1&4 and 2&3 would be better. Its on a small issue, but we are getting close with back pressure on the current range of aftermarket exhausts.

Ah yes, back pressure - i'd forgotten about that... I'm guessing the full milltek has the least possible back pressure without removing the cat completely?

Such a shame you can just remove the cat and have a 'special' lean map for the MOT...

[Tolksee]

Would there be any benefits in using a 100-cell cat with a s/c? Would the map be changed?

[griffo]

"what are the rod part numbers so that i/we can get the right ones?" Ok. Got the part numbers now. You need CRS5765C3D. They forged in 4340 steel with a 5.765"centre to centre, stock crank and piston pin diameters and stock big end width. They weigh 550g. Tomorrow I'll get round to weighing one of the oe rods I took out and see how it compares.

[griffo]

The OE rods (including bolts) weigh in at a smidgin over 750 grams. Say 700 grams without bolts since I assume the weight given for the Eagles is without bolts. So that's a very useful reduction in reciprocating mass of around 150 grams.

[slindborg]

funky. found a site in the US that will ship to the uk a set for $380 + C&E rip off tax... im going to build a semi fun N/A engine to slip in at some point next year

[NickB787]

This was quite a while back now, however if my memory serves me correct the issue it was more down to how it collects and the pulse legths with the compressor equiped car, the Weapon R manifold on paper is not best suited for the same reason, however we are going to try it on Griffo's to see what will happen. The exhaust manifold that has worked quite well is the dbilas exhaust manifold, however the down side to this is that even more heavy than the standard item so I'm told which is a pity.

Anyone tried the Regal manifold? just thinking of the weight saving over standard.

From web site

The VX220 product range is growing by the day and the next part is the performance stainless steel high flow manifold. With a 40% weight reduction over the standard parts. This manifold will fit onto the standard system which will increase the perormance of your vehicle.

[griffo]

The story so far. The car is back in Cornwall from Courtenay (a bloody long way away) in Norfolk and results look pretty impressive. A smidgin under 240 bhp at @ 6,500 (a bit of a jump from the flacid 147bhp the standard car puts out) and 214 lb ft of torque @ 3,500 rpm (compared with 150 lb ft at a higher 4,000 rpm for the standard car). Both the bigger throttle body and the Tsudo manifold worked well but it's not possible to say what actual effect they had without a back-to-back test. Full road test was not possible because the rear clam was off (car returned to Cornwall on its trailer). I cant wait to get the clam modified and back on early in the New Year and report driving impressions. A few points to note:a) the tailbox part of my home-brewed exhaust system was the standard diameter with a fairly tight bend and so I would expect the bigger diameter Milltek to add something to the power figures the Tsudo glowed red hot on the dyno and will have to be lagged and heat shielded to prevent the engine cover melting and the lagging will hopefully reduce the chance of it cracking since it will heat up and cool slower. All in all I'm a happy bunny.

[griffo]

If I have managed to do this right this should be a link to a video clip the car car on the dyno. Note the manifold changing colour.

http://s117.photobuc...ercharger-1.flv

This is the blower installed:

http://i117.photobuc...rcharger003.jpg

And this is John and Mark (not sure which one is which):

http://i117.photobuc...allation001.jpg

[NickB787]

If I have managed to do this right this should be a link to a video clip the car car on the dyno. Note the manifold changing colour.

You wern't kidding, that was so funny, I think you may need a LOT,LOT of lagging

Think I may forget about the manifold then.

Maybe Dbilas I think thats cast as well as the standard one maybe a better flow

Edited by NickB777, 17 December 2006 - 12:12 PM.

[paulf-cam]

The story so far. The car is back in Cornwall from Courtenay (a bloody long way away) in Norfolk and results look pretty impressive. A smidgin under 240 bhp at @ 6,500 (a bit of a jump from the flacid 147bhp the standard car puts out) and 214 lb ft of torque @ 3,500 rpm

Good to know you got that installed in the end, i'm jelous!

Whats the restriction on the setup atm? Or is it simply time for a smaller pully?

Ta, Paul.