47 replies to this topic

[Pipo]

Sorry to hear that you’re less than delighted with your Milltek system .

Your system is showing some pretty extreme discolouration but the discolouration is very different from corrosion which would appear as flakes .

We’ve been manufacturing and supplying exhausts for 24 years now and have very low warranty levels , I don’t share your pessimism about the longevity of the system at all .
''

The discolouration can't be so exceptional, because mine looks exactly the same and it only covered about 5000 km in total by now Allthough I agree that this want make it break, it certainly raises some valid questions about the used steel-quality.

Also the problem I had with the curved pipe was a manufacturing error, wich was clearly visible to the naked eye. Which make me wonder about the quality-control before it leaves your factory.

I was always told Milltek was the Rolls-Royce under the exhaust systems and the price certainly confirms that, but it doesn't reflect in the quality

So maybe it's time you look into these remarks, and see how you can implement solutions to avoid them in the future Your business can only gain from it

[ChazUwe]

Pipework for stainless exhausts is often made from 316 type stainless steel.

This is better up to the task of coping with the heat than 304 type, but it does go 'dark' and develops a surface oxidation layer. Pretty much cosmetic though. It's still structurally sound.

304 remains more 'shiny', although in hot area's it will go a dark yellow.

IMHO the picture of the 'bend' is looking quite normal for a piece of hot stainless steel that's exposed to a lot of water, salt and dirt.

Exhausts under the center of other cars are not showered with crap like inside the wheelarch of the VX.

Bye, Arno,

What he said, mine is totally sound structurally so why does it matter about the colour? Obviously the manurfacturing fault is something else to address. However why worry about some slight discolouring somewhere which isn't visable and not structural? Life is too short ! If by some miracle it rots through you get it replaced under the life time promise from milltek.

Think I will spend my days driving the thing not worrying about some tiny amount of surface rust! From pictures of other exhausts that have come up on ebay they all look similarly affected IMO.

[speedster]

anyone elses as bad as this?? considering theyre so expensive they have crap quality welds and they dont look like theyre built to last..

even powerflow use better grade stainless.. thats if the milltek even is stainless as its corroding badly! (6months old)

can see the difference between the cat sections material and the pipe section..

Looks like normal high temp wear and tear to me...

[dw1]

It's covered by a lifetime warranty, as long as the visible bits look shiny and the exhaust works then I personally wouldn't lose sleep over it. I trust Milltek, they have a long standing reputation. To give something a lifetime guarantee that gets exposed to all weathers and temperatures must mean they have confidence in and stand by their product and earnt reputation in motorsport. I'd leave it on the car and if it starts to go, just ask for another one. If you're worried about the exhaust I'd also be worried about the rest of the bits of the car in that photo, they look in a worse state than the exhaust discolouration.

Edited by dw1, 16 May 2007 - 01:28 AM.

[jules_s]

I guess half the 'problem' here is people think of 'stainless' steel.....then automatically think of their knives and forks I myself only realised stainless was perishable when I specced some (304 I think) railings around a swimming pool....they rusted within weeks.

[2GOOD]

I guess half the 'problem' here is people think of 'stainless' steel.....then automatically think of their knives and forks

SNAP! Back in 98, when Vauxhall launched the Astra 'G' they made a big thing about the car having an exhaust made from stainless steel, didn't take long for Joe Public to start reappearing in the service departments with their 'only a few months old' Astra's demanding to see the service manager about their exhausts. Hence we learnt about different grades of stainless, Vauxhall changed the wording in the brouchure, but carried on using the same material, no more unhappy customers & yet still very few rusty exhausts (compared with Corsa & Vectra of same age).

[dimd00d]

SNAP! Back in 98, when Vauxhall launched the Astra 'G' they made a big thing about the car having an exhaust made from stainless steel, didn't take long for Joe Public to start reappearing in the service departments with their 'only a few months old' Astra's demanding to see the service manager about their exhausts. Hence we learnt about different grades of stainless, Vauxhall changed the wording in the brouchure, but carried on using the same material, no more unhappy customers & yet still very few rusty exhausts (compared with Corsa & Vectra of same age).

Kinda OT, this story reminds me about a joke we have here - 'Why are the Opels so fast? Cause the rust is chasing them'

[Guy182]

However why worry about some slight discolouring somewhere which isn't visable and not structural? Life is too short ! If by some miracle it rots through you get it replaced under the life time promise from milltek.

Think I will spend my days driving the thing not worrying about some tiny amount of surface rust! From pictures of other exhausts that have come up on ebay they all look similarly affected IMO.

im with the 'putting on high mileage brigade' too, only posted photos asking if everyone elses was like this as miltek exhaust are VERY expensive yet that doesn't show in the quality from the pics.

jees seems like you cant even post a discussion on this discussion forum anymore.

i'll stick with the rest asking how to adjust the windows everyday instead i think

[MrSimba]

As already said it comes with a lifetime warantee from a reputable company, which I also assume warantees the 100 cell cat passing an MOT which is not something others will do. Its the last exaust I'll ever need for the VX and thats good enough for me!

Edited by MrSimba, 16 May 2007 - 04:06 AM.

[Thorney]

Guy, I don't think people here have any issues with you raising issues with this but the manner you raise them can appear a little combative? I've seen your email to Milltek and its opening line is agressive (perhaps there is a theme here) and doesn't exactly engender a warm response? However Phil (owner of Milltek) remains as committed as we are to making sure you are happy as a customer. As regards the pipe issue I agree that would appear to be a build fault and of course it would be covered under warranty but it appears to be an old case? The bottom line is that the VXT has one of the harshest engine temperature environments we've ever seen on a road car (or race car for that matter) remember Lotus actually melted aluminium chassis in development so its as bad as it gets in terms of engine bay and exhaust gas temps. I'm actually pretty proud that in over 500 odd VXT systems out there (should check the actual amount I guess as its probably more) we've had zero cat failures, zero rear box failures and only one weld failure ever! The original system (ie the first one ever made is still on my race car (rear box only, we run a different precat pipe and decat now due to diferent turbo) and thats still going strong as ever in an unbelieveably harsh environment. Yes the system will discolour, yes there will be surface changes primarily due to dirt being cooked on and flaking on the surface but as long as the visible areas (ie the ones that are supposed to be shiny) remain shiny and the pipes themselves carry on doing their job then you shouldn't worry. Even so the warranty will cover any eventuality. The reaction you're getting is probably a reaction from people as to how you're making your observations rather than the content of the observation itself?

[theotherjonnymac]

My Milltek looks like those in the picture, has done 25k miles and is performing perfectly. Nothing to worry about IMO.

[Guy182]

Guy, I don't think people here have any issues with you raising issues with this but the manner you raise them can appear a little combative? I've seen your email to Milltek and its opening line is agressive (perhaps there is a theme here) and doesn't exactly engender a warm response? However Phil (owner of Milltek) remains as committed as we are to making sure you are happy as a customer.

As regards the pipe issue I agree that would appear to be a build fault and of course it would be covered under warranty but it appears to be an old case?

The bottom line is that the VXT has one of the harshest engine temperature environments we've ever seen on a road car (or race car for that matter) remember Lotus actually melted aluminium chassis in development so its as bad as it gets in terms of engine bay and exhaust gas temps. I'm actually pretty proud that in over 500 odd VXT systems out there (should check the actual amount I guess as its probably more) we've had zero cat failures, zero rear box failures and only one weld failure ever! The original system (ie the first one ever made is still on my race car (rear box only, we run a different precat pipe and decat now due to diferent turbo) and thats still going strong as ever in an unbelieveably harsh environment.

Yes the system will discolour, yes there will be surface changes primarily due to dirt being cooked on and flaking on the surface but as long as the visible areas (ie the ones that are supposed to be shiny) remain shiny and the pipes themselves carry on doing their job then you shouldn't worry. Even so the warranty will cover any eventuality. The reaction you're getting is probably a reaction from people as to how you're making your observations rather than the content of the observation itself?

lol it was only a question to see if mine was normal or whether they are all like it. as you can see the actual CATitself is still shiny with slight surface rust, the flexi is like new, but the joining pipes look pretty bad

and from my past experience of having cars with stainless exhausts they havent discoloured or had any flaking whatsoever. as you pointed out that may be because my previous cars havent been turbo engines and subject to similar temps of the VX but ive seen plenty of other exhausts that have been on cars for months and still look like new underneath (and as per the HKS sytem off the 300zx posted above.. that has two turbos warming it up) i guess the only explanation for this is most of these are on jap cars (blitz hks greddy etc) and maybe its just the japs use a better grade shinier steel for the whole system not just the tailpipes.

obviously its got a lifetime warranty so im not fussed, just questioned it as it looks like its corroding and looks like a mild steel exhaust would do and the person working on my car at the minute said hes never seen a stainless exhaust go like it before. allthough he is used to working on jap cars and WRC cars.

opening line is aggressive??

''hi. ive had a milltek system with 100cell sports cat on my vx220 for approx 6 months, and its looking in dreadful condition.''

guess im just an aggressive person then as i cant see whats wrong in that statement to be fair.


''Even so the warranty will cover any eventuality'' thats the main thing

milltek and remap should be on every vx220.

Edited by Guy182, 16 May 2007 - 12:51 PM.

[Pipo]

Allthough I wasn't the original buyer of my backbox, I'm convinced that Milltek would have replaced it under warranty being it a manufacturing fault . But I couldn't bother about the hassle and the cost to send the pipe back to the U.K. . It was faster and cheaper to simply repair it myself And as I said, I'm sure the discouloration want effect the overal build quality. It's just that when people receive a shiny new stainless exhaust from a name as Milltek, they don't expect it to look like this after 5000km. So as a manufacturer you can expect to get remarks about it. I can assure others though that the twin tailpipes still look splendid (but then I polish them ca every 100 miles ) The only thing is that the original VXR mark dissappeared rather quickly by the polishing. I suppose it's because the mark is etched and not engraved. So I engraved it mechanically again and now it stays on .

[walkes]

Cannot see what the problem is, try heating up a stainless steel fork and I bet you it will discolour. Think the problem maybe that your expectation of what the exhaust should look like. Try comparing it with an exhaust from another mid engine car rather than a front engine one, as most front engine cars run the exhaust under the car where heat dissipates better, rather than the engine bay of a VX.

[vxr36]

I have worked in the welding industry for a company that specialised in stainless, chrome, and high nickel content electrodes and wires. The pictures show what can happen when extreme conditions are impossed on low quality stainless. This doesn't mean it will fail in the car's lifetime. It just means that it will not look as nice. All stainless will discolour to an extent paticularly in under high temp. In short, the better the quality the better the looks. Maybe as the heat is higher in the VX compartment a higher grade could be used. But to balance that... it would have been more expensive and you still wouldn't be able to see much of it unless you were working on the engine from underneath. I think Guy was right (and brave) to voice his opinion. We can read what we like in his comments but I have learned a lot about what to expect from my car from all the posters here. I just wish people were allowed to ask questions and voice opinions without fear of reprisals. You might get a more rounded forum.

[chris_vx220turbo]

hi well i have a full milltek and the end tips on it have started crackin. i got it with the car so i dont have no paper work. so wat i am gettin to is can i take my car to any place where they sell milltek exhausts and get it change or what should i do. thanks

[Guy182]

''Maybe as the heat is higher in the VX compartment a higher grade could be used. But to balance that... it would have been more expensive and you still wouldn't be able to see much of it unless you were working on the engine from underneath.'' exactly. thing is... judging by the high price tag i thought it WOULD have been a higher quality stainless, i thought thats what the expenseive prices of the millteks were for. from what i can see they obviously used better stainless on the cat/flexi/tailpipes and used cheaper stuff on the pipes. shame really as it does let the system down and i think it would be more difficult to sell on a second hand system for this reason. ''I think Guy was right (and brave) to voice his opinion.'' watch out they'll be after you next be interesting to see pics of how a blueflame and larini look in comparison after being fitted for 6 months. not as an argument before everyone accuses me of it. but to see if the qality is beter/worse/same as the milltek and obviously give everyone a better idea of which system is better VFM for their vx. still love the sound of my milltek and the performance

[Alex Os]

thing is... judging by the high price tag i thought it WOULD have been a higher quality stainless, i thought thats what the expenseive prices of the millteks were for.

from what i can see they obviously used better stainless on the cat/flexi/tailpipes and used cheaper stuff on the pipes. shame really as it does let the system down and i think it would be more difficult to sell on a second hand system for this reason.

I'm not really too worried what my Miltek looks like, however, mine has been fitted for about 5 months and when i had it up on our ramp the other week was also quite surprized how grotty it looked, especially the flanges and lambda sensor boss.

My suspicions as to the reason for this were confirmed when i discovered that these parts rather than being a low quality stainless are actually mild steel . I'm not to bothered as this shouldn't effect the performance of the system, but maybe a little surprized that Miltek are going to these extreems to keep the cost down.

The only slight pain in the arse will be if i need to remove the system at some point as all the joints and bolts look like they were raised from the sea bed along with the Mary Rose. I'm sure it won't be the end of the world though

[MIKE_VX]

My suspicions as to the reason for this were confirmed when i discovered that these parts rather than being a low quality stainless are actually mild steel . I'm not to bothered as this shouldn't effect the performance of the system, but maybe a little surprized that Miltek are going to these extreems to keep the cost down.

Well if that's actually true, we should all be due a refund. It's clearly stated as being 'constructed entirely of type 304 stainless steel' so if in fact it's not, that's a false description. Can anyone actually verify this?

Having said this, if it is just a low quality stainless for the 'unseen' bits then I don't care, as as other have said, if it rusts through, I'd just claim on the lifetime guarantee!

[vocky]

well after 130 miles my new milltek is starting to sound better, still looks shiny and worth every penny