182 replies to this topic

[Thorney]

I've never locked or deleted a thread in my life, why would I start with this one, we have nothing to hide. Andrew was made fully aware that this was the first road car we had done, he was made fully aware that this meant that he was part of the testing process and he was made fully aware that it would take time. Interestingly Andrew was provided with the car back fully knowing that he didn't have a final map and that he had standard injectors as the new ones had not yet arrived, he takes it to Courtenay who confirm that in their opinion all the car needed was larger injectors and a final map ( I have spoken to Courtenay who confirmed this) and yet he declines to pay for work undertaken (which includes items such as fitting larger fuel tank so unrelated to any tuning work). We've given him courtesy cars for weeks on end, delivered and picked up the car from his home, his workplace, given him any number of free upgrades, free labour and free consumables., even my offer to not persue the bill until things had clamed down has been deliberately twisted to be something it is not so I've had enough. I look forward to my day in court.

[LazyDonkey]

I've never locked or deleted a thread in my life, why would I start with this one, we have nothing to hide.

Andrew was made fully aware that this was the first road car we had done, he was made fully aware that this meant that he was part of the testing process and he was made fully aware that it would take time.

I thought you didnt test on customer's cars ?

[Thorney]

We don't, however everyone knows that Andrews car was the first stage 5 road car we have done, its not like we've hidden it at any time.

[LazyDonkey]

Sorry to be pedantic but if you don't.....then how can andrew's be the first car?

Surely if you don't use customer's cars, then andrews would be the 2nd or 3rd car.

We could go into lengthy detail about all the parts used and how they were selected through rigorous testing on our own cars

....and this is the quote about stage 5 on the website which doens't suggest andrew's is the only car / first car.

Edited by LazyDonkey, 25 January 2008 - 09:23 PM.

[A13X]

I look forward to my day in court.

That maybe so, but would prob make better sense, including business sense to keep your feelings to yourself and your lawyers.

Its one thing a forum user slagging a company off, as that is what forums are part of. However its another thing a company slagging an individual off, this to me losers credibility.
The couple of years of years ive been a member on this forum, ive never seen companies that are given reviews on this site, good or bad e.g. Horizon, Plans, Top Gear etc ever post their feelings to work done on customer cars or bad publicity...

This for me is where TMS have suffered, have been too public about their business and have since become unstuck on several occasions where things have gone wrong. Sometimes is best to know when to act as a business and not a regular forum member...

[Thorney]

Define stage 5? Engine internals (pistons, cams, rods) - done before, our race car, MikeF's car and an Astra G Turbo, manifold, injectors - all done on our race car. Andrew was fully aware his was the first road car for the turbo, manifold, injectors other than the race car in which it performed very well (the break downs were crank shaft sensors, unrelated to road cars). Indeed most of the delays were due to the conversion from race application to road car, again a point made very clear at all stages.

[Thorney]

That maybe so, but would prob make better sense, including business sense to keep your feelings to yourself and your lawyers.

Its one thing a forum user slagging a company off, as that is what forums are part of. However its another thing a company slagging an individual off, this to me losers credibility.
The couple of years of years ive been a member on this forum, ive never seen companies that are given reviews on this site, good or bad e.g. Horizon, Plans, Top Gear etc ever post their feelings to work done on customer cars or bad publicity...

This for me is where TMS have suffered, have been too public about their business and have since become unstuck on several occasions where things have gone wrong. Sometimes is best to know when to act as a business and not a regular forum member...

Thats a fair point and I'd love to just let this be in the hands of the court, however people read forums and assume that what is written about is gospel when its not. Look at Ekona's response, he's been to TMS, says he's always been happy with the service and yet a post like this turns that opinion without grounds, I have no option but to defend myself.

[LazyDonkey]

Define stage 5?

Engine internals (pistons, cams, rods) - done before, our race car, MikeF's car and an Astra G
Turbo, manifold, injectors - all done on our race car.

Andrew was fully aware his was the first road car for the turbo, manifold, injectors other than the race car in which it performed very well (the break downs were crank shaft sensors, unrelated to road cars). Indeed most of the delays were due to the conversion from race application to road car, again a point made very clear at all stages.

I guess the problem comes is that to many this sort of post will not sit well with the frequent "we won't release something until it's been tested" words spoken on here. Also with the "we don't test on our customer's cars, unlike our competitors" posts.

The website paints a picture of a well developed stage 5 package that has been extensively tested on your own ROAD cars, and is now suitable and available for purchase.

I'm assuming that, were this the case, Andrew would have had no issues.

Edited by LazyDonkey, 25 January 2008 - 09:36 PM.

[Thorney]

If you look at the VX220 pages you'll notice they've not been updated from some time for this reason. Whenever someone has enquired about the stage 5 we have rejected the booking being up front that it hasn't been finished yet. Indeed we have another stage 4 to 5 conversion in and the owner (who is a member here) is fully aware on the status including Andrews car and all the details. Look at the 2.2 work, we cancelled three cars as we weren't confident that the first customer car we'd done wasn't ready, and yet I get a kicking for cancelling people - we can't win. The VX220 pages will remain as they are until I can prove all the new stages and how they fit in and then we'll accept work on what we've developed, if we were selling it as completed work I'd understand but we're not.

[Guy182]

http://www.vx220.org...s...c=48556&hl=

''MikeF's is the third car we've done, yours in the fourth''

[Thorney]

Correct: 1. Our own VXT race car 2. Astra G Zlet engine 3. MikeF 4. Andrew MikeF and Andrew were both aware that the development work on the turbo/manifold wasn't complete, hence MikeF decided to wait and Andrew decided to carry on, fully aware that whilst the race car was complete we'd not done a road car version.

[mja182]

Anyone?

Attached Files

•  popcorn.jpg   62.03KB   7 downloads

[LazyDonkey]

If you look at the VX220 pages you'll notice they've not been updated from some time for this reason.

Ah i remember my first day in marketing school - "your website is your window to the world - make sure it's shiny !"

If TMS were mine and i knew my stage 5 product was a tiny weeny bit under-developed i'd not advertise it.

Anything else would, in my opinion, be false advertising.

[Thorney]

Your'e right, and in retrospect I will change the section on stage 5, but remember no-one (has or will) book that kind of work just by email after reading the site, they call, ask questions (as they have done) and on each occasion we have said, its not ready yet, notice there is no price, hard to buy something if thats not there.

[Sticky]

Anyone?

I'll have a large one and a diet Pepsi thanks.

We haven't had a good TMS bashing thread for ages, this is so exciting.

Sticky

[vxr36]

I'm sorry but John you are spouting lie after lie. You told me you could deliver a job in a matter of weeks in December 2006 2 weeks for engine and 2 for turbo. You said you could deliver the power I was requesting. You said that you had done a stage five on three cars already and that mine and Mike's were 4th and fifth. You, nor anyone from TMS have never come to my house. I have not seen an invoice from you that I have not paid. In fact I gave you a further 1500 in October as a contribution towards the 9 weeks that you had the car during Sep and Oct last year. I have no confidence in you or your skills to deliver what you promised 18 months ago. Despite you clearly meaning well you have never come up with the goods. After the last visit when the fire ocurred your mechanic met me in at a service station and took out a fire extinguisher from the car which he had taken with him. You were doing well to calm the situation down by asking me to keep quiet - which I did. However, I see your latest telephone threat as commercial suicide. Of course, I am not going to pay for a job that was not only never completed but there was no sign of you ever acquiring the skills to do so. Instead I had my car shagged to death daily by TMS and Superchips, it suffered from an engine mount failure, a burst radiator, 136 degree oil temps and was set on fire. All this and it has not run properly since I dropped it to TMS in Feb 2007. You said that my boot lid would be replced but there is fire damage to the rear clam as well which you have not offered to pay for and I have already parted with £4000 more than the original guide price... I say guide as you have never provided me with a firm quote which I have asked for on numerous occasions. PS. You ask people to define a stage 5? Surely it is what you told me I could have as per your website of the time. The irony of it all would be hilarious if it wasn't so tragic.

Edited by vxr36, 25 January 2008 - 09:59 PM.

[djegiant]

Anyone?

is it sweet or salty?

Salty!

How could anyone eat that sh*t.

[LazyDonkey]

We haven't had a good TMS bashing thread for ages, this is so exciting.

And we aren't having one now. We are having a discussion. hth

If courtenay / regal / vauxhall / anyone came on a forum and said something that I thought was questionable I would ask exactly the sort of questions I'm asking here.

I can't speak for everyone on this thread but for me, all I care about is the truth and a return to those old fashioned values of honesty and decency. If John makes a stirling rousing defence and when reading it i think "good point, well made" then i will of course retract any harsh statement i've made.

HTH

EDIT : If i posted something to say the world was round and someone said "lazy thats sh*t it's flat. You're a c*nt" and then when i said "my new car is white" and the same person said "lazy you c*ck, it's black. and you're a c*nt" that would be "lazy bashing". Therefore TMS bashing would be disagreeing with every statement john makes regardless of the validity of the statement. As far as i can see there has been no tms bashing in this thread.

Edited by LazyDonkey, 25 January 2008 - 10:06 PM.