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Engine Replacement


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#21 dimd00d

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 06:42 PM

The gearbox is a major fudge to do, plus the ratios are rubbish, plus issues getting a cable TB version

Why not just get advice for a decent Vocky spec 2.2


What are the issues with the gearbox? :) The cables are long enough to go round the back, and with new ends you can plug them directly (I could be talking out of my ass, since this is scheduled to be done next week). On a side topic - are there interest for replacement NA gearbox cables if those are priced nicely?

K20A2 is with a cable TB, only a cable needs to be ran from the gas pedal - easier on LHD cars, since there is a plenty of space.

Torque is almost as much as the Z22SE, sure, you'll need to rev it more, but its a sports car :) On the plus side, its a more powerful engine than Z22SE stock and tuned, performance parts (including a SC) are very cheap, if you source them from US. Oh, and if the german speedster forum is to believed - the combo is 50 kgs lighter (sounds kinda suspicious, I'll weight the car after its done)

Anyways, its a personal preference - if you decide to do it, its definitely doable. There are no ready kits for it...yet :)

Here is a dyno chart if you decide to go this way: :D

Posted Image

Edited by dimd00d, 27 May 2009 - 06:57 PM.


#22 dimd00d

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 06:44 PM

Taken from Dimd00d's teaser thread :)

Posted Image


This was a preliminary 'position' picture. Now that we have the position and angles, we've made custom PU mounts for the engine. If everything goes as planned, next week its going to the exhaust shop for a custom 4in1 header and exhaust system.

#23 danger7

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 06:57 PM

thumbsup nice to see a bit of engineering going on - look forward to seeing it finished, lets us know how it compares to the Z22SE Cheers Ian

#24 southpaw

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 07:10 PM

did you have pullen commision that dyno drawing thumbsup Imnotworthy

#25 Zoobeef

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 07:12 PM

Haha was just about to say pullen is that you??

#26 dimd00d

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 07:19 PM

Oh cmon, this is a truthful and totally scientific chart. Countless computer hours were spent simulating the engine behaviour :D (Whomever is that pullen dude, I am sure he is an expert in his field)

#27 Winstar

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 07:29 PM

I was talking to a guy at the scottish motorfair who had an Elise S1 with a VTEC engine in it and he loved it. His brother had a SC elise and he said that it was just as quick but NA.
He said that you had to rev it to get the best out of it though.


The S1 elise is about 720kg and the elise SC is more like 920kg, in which case it doen't make a very good argument if it's just as quick.

The amount of money it would cost you it just wouldn't be worth it you could have more power and torque out of the NA engine by either Harrop SC or TB's, if you want a screamer sell up and buy an 111R or exige.

#28 dimd00d

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 07:42 PM

The amount of money it would cost you it just wouldn't be worth it you could have more power and torque out of the NA engine by either Harrop SC or TB's


I am not arguing the 'more expensive' point.

Honda, stock, has the same power as TBed Z22SE (220hp for ECU tuned K20A2, which you need for the swap anyways), SC can be pushed to about 300 on the hubs with Eaton M62 without opening the engine (again, im judging by posts on Honda forums, not from experience). TVS unfortunately is not yet available in a kit form, but Rotrex kits are, and both M62 and Rotrex kits are not expensive.

#29 vocky

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 07:50 PM

a diy sc conversion is probably the cheapest way to get 250 bhp out of a 2.2 vx, Courtenay are the people to speak to thumbsup if na power is what you want then the webcon throttle bodies sold by tms are the way ahead. The trouble with raising the rev limit is the final drive ratio needs changing, I'm currently looking for gearbox number four to change the final drive ratio once again :beat:

#30 cnrandall

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 07:57 PM

Funny thread :-) The K-20 Honda is the best 4 cylinder engine out there IMHO but I don't see the point of going to all the effort to swap the very good VX engine out for it. If you want to go faster with the VX engine then strap a super charger on it. Job done :-)

#31 dimd00d

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 07:59 PM

Funny thread :-)

The K-20 Honda is the best 4 cylinder engine out there IMHO but I don't see the point of going to all the effort to swap the very good VX engine out for it. If you want to go faster with the VX engine then strap a super charger on it. Job done :-)


Well I had the following 3 decision points in my head:

a ) why not?
b ) K20 has more potential, 6 speed box, is (arguably) lighter and revs higher (yes I want revs just for the fun of it, I have a daily car :) )
c ) why not?

:)

Edited by dimd00d, 27 May 2009 - 08:01 PM.


#32 rcvaughan

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 08:07 PM

a diy sc conversion is probably the cheapest way to get 250 bhp out of a 2.2 vx, Courtenay are the people to speak to thumbsup

if na power is what you want then the webcon throttle bodies sold by tms are the way ahead.

The trouble with raising the rev limit is the final drive ratio needs changing, I'm currently looking for gearbox number four to change the final drive ratio once again :beat:


:blink: Raising the rev limit by how much requires the final drive ratio to be changed? :unsure:

#33 Sticky

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 08:13 PM

a diy sc conversion is probably the cheapest way to get 250 bhp out of a 2.2 vx, Courtenay are the people to speak to thumbsup

if na power is what you want then the webcon throttle bodies sold by tms are the way ahead.

The trouble with raising the rev limit is the final drive ratio needs changing, I'm currently looking for gearbox number four to change the final drive ratio once again :beat:


Not keen on the M32? Ouch

#34 cnrandall

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 08:48 PM

a ) why not? Because its a massive job to do it properly (which you will have to to make it worthwhile) b ) K20 has more potential, 6 speed box, is (arguably) lighter and revs higher (yes I want revs just for the fun of it, I have a daily car :) ) M32? c ) why not? Read answer to 'a)' Whilst we are in the mood for questions... Why not stick an SC on the GM lump?

#35 dimd00d

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 09:01 PM

a ) why not?

Because its a massive job to do it properly (which you will have to to make it worthwhile)

b ) K20 has more potential, 6 speed box, is (arguably) lighter and revs higher (yes I want revs just for the fun of it, I have a daily car :) )

M32?

c ) why not?

Read answer to 'a)'

Whilst we are in the mood for questions... Why not stick an SC on the GM lump?


a) Its not as massive as you think it is. You should see the wild swaps we have over here. I am not saying its trivial though.

B) M32 requires well, a M32, and new set of driveshafts and other bits, so that negates the price of a K20A gearbox and driveshafts. (and M32 wont make a Z22SE any closer to K20A)

c) Why not, probably cause I was quoted 4K euro or so from Hitec last year for a DIY kit. And then I would've maxed at 250hp.

Anyways, different people - different ideas. I wouldnt started the project if I didnt truly wanted it.

#36 jules_s

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 09:10 PM

I may be wrong but wasn't Chris involved with Scuffers in the K20A conversion for the Elise/Exige? I do seem to recall the Erige conversion cost quite a fair few ££££ to get right

#37 cnrandall

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 09:19 PM

I may be wrong but wasn't Chris involved with Scuffers in the K20A conversion for the Elise/Exige?

I do seem to recall the Erige conversion cost quite a fair few ££££ to get right


I've been very involved with the K-20 Honda conversion for a few years now. That grumpy old git Scuffham and I have been racing cars together for quite some time including 3 24 hour races.

As I already said, the K-20 is the best when it comes to 4-pot engines but the GM 2.2 is also very good and a great base for SC conversion. Much, much easier to get your power from the original engine than to swap it out completely.

#38 dimd00d

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 09:25 PM

I've been very involved with the K-20 Honda conversion for a few years now. That grumpy old git Scuffham and I have been racing cars together for quite some time including 3 24 hour races.

As I already said, the K-20 is the best when it comes to 4-pot engines but the GM 2.2 is also very good and a great base for SC conversion. Much, much easier to get your power from the original engine than to swap it out completely.


See now, you are a kill joy, and you are calling that cool guy Simon S a grumpy git :P

#39 jules_s

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 09:50 PM

I may be wrong but wasn't Chris involved with Scuffers in the K20A conversion for the Elise/Exige?

I do seem to recall the Erige conversion cost quite a fair few ££££ to get right


I've been very involved with the K-20 Honda conversion for a few years now. That grumpy old git Scuffham and I have been racing cars together for quite some time including 3 24 hour races.

As I already said, the K-20 is the best when it comes to 4-pot engines but the GM 2.2 is also very good and a great base for SC conversion. Much, much easier to get your power from the original engine than to swap it out completely.


I sort of knew that anyways, as I always enjoyed reading the k-king threads on seloc/exiges :)

I only see Simon talking his own brand of sense on PH these days, which is a shame if I'm honest....

To me a SC vx is a no-brainer as opposed to a Honda

#40 johnyt

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 05:52 AM

Ford Duratech? I've heard this is becoming the conversion of choice now for the Elise. Steve Williams in Maidenhead was toying with dropping one into an S1 Elise he had lying around in his workshop, not sure if he did it. Easily tunable to 350bhp with a blower. Imnotworthy




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