77 replies to this topic

[techieboy]

It is not a surprise from your responses to see that you are in Bedford! hehe. Having to arrange a day to go down and have the noise test done is completely inpractical for most people. And would probably cost more than they paid of the trackday to drive down just to do a test in terms of losing a day and fuel. Would you arrange a day off to go up to Oulton Park or Croft just for a noise test? A crazy idea isn't it?

Personally, if I really wanted to do Knockhill and they had a particularly strict noise limit that was different to the norm, then yes, I'd make arrangements to go there and get it checked (luckily they don't appear to have noise Nazi's installed by the local council). I've driven to Goodwood and been checked there before now (and failed) as have I at Castle Combe. All MSV circuits offer the test.

The other problem I have with the "test" and/or a Marshall doing is that it's no different to the owner doing it on the first session! Ie; why is it not a problem for a marshall to break the limit but a complete disaster if the owner does it? Either way the limit has been breached? that can't be undone, whether it's on a "test" or the first session of a trackday. It makes no sense at all to me.

It is a problem if the car breaches the noise limit, no matter who is driving it. It still has to be accounted for with the local council. Evo have been kicked off numerous times when they've tried to set a time there. If the car fails the test during a prior driveby noise test, it hasn't cost you anything (other than your time and fuel to get there). If you fail a driveby on your first lap on a trackday, it's cost you whatever you paid for that trackday (plus your time and fuel). So unless my maths and logic are totally screwed, they are totally different scenarios.

In any case, there are much much better circuits out there (especially all the other MSV circuits) - Bedford is only slightly above an airfield venue IMO.

Indeed there are. Your money, your choice. The real attraction of Bedford is the fact it's by far the safest, most spacious venue with a decent surface in the country. Luckily for me, it's 10 minutes away and always used to be great fun for an evening session on one of the smaller circuits. Unluckily for me, I'm now too loud and can't use it with any degree of assurance that I'll pass the driveby limits.

[c_w]

It is not a surprise from your responses to see that you are in Bedford! hehe. Having to arrange a day to go down and have the noise test done is completely inpractical for most people. And would probably cost more than they paid of the trackday to drive down just to do a test in terms of losing a day and fuel. Would you arrange a day off to go up to Oulton Park or Croft just for a noise test? A crazy idea isn't it?

Personally, if I really wanted to do Knockhill and they had a particularly strict noise limit that was different to the norm, then yes, I'd make arrangements to go there and get it checked (luckily they don't appear to have noise Nazi's installed by the local council). I've driven to Goodwood and been checked there before now (and failed) as have I at Castle Combe. All MSV circuits offer the test.

You'd drive all the way to a circuit, perhaps 200miles+ away just for a noise test? You may well be alone in that practice, most people would not entertain that at all!!

The other problem I have with the "test" and/or a Marshall doing is that it's no different to the owner doing it on the first session! Ie; why is it not a problem for a marshall to break the limit but a complete disaster if the owner does it? Either way the limit has been breached? that can't be undone, whether it's on a "test" or the first session of a trackday. It makes no sense at all to me.

It is a problem if the car breaches the noise limit, no matter who is driving it. It still has to be accounted for with the local council. Evo have been kicked off numerous times when they've tried to set a time there. If the car fails the test during a prior driveby noise test, it hasn't cost you anything (other than your time and fuel to get there). If you fail a driveby on your first lap on a trackday, it's cost you whatever you paid for that trackday (plus your time and fuel). So unless my maths and logic are totally screwed, they are totally different scenarios.

There's no maths involved here - I'm just trying to ascertain how the marshall can test your car and fail or pass it before the trackday, but on the trackday as soon as it's breached the car is effectively banned for the day? Can't you see this obvious point? that if you can do the test, fail it, and come back a day/week/whatever later on the trackday itself with a modified exhaust and it's all ok, why is it such an issue to fail the noise on the first session, be pulled in the pits and be allowed to rectify it? Fair enough, if you can't do anyhting about then so be it, but not to be allowed this chance doesn't sit right with the "marshall noise test".

In any case, there are much much better circuits out there (especially all the other MSV circuits) - Bedford is only slightly above an airfield venue IMO.

Indeed there are. Your money, your choice. The real attraction of Bedford is the fact it's by far the safest, most spacious venue with a decent surface in the country. Luckily for me, it's 10 minutes away and always used to be great fun for an evening session on one of the smaller circuits. Unluckily for me, I'm now too loud and can't use it with any degree of assurance that I'll pass the driveby limits.

Decent surface? have you been to the same place as me lol. It's the worst surface of any circuit in the country bar a full-on airfield, there's about 3 different types of surfaces, and very badly cambered corners where different parts meet.

Edited by c_w, 04 February 2010 - 06:24 PM.

[markiii]

It is not a surprise from your responses to see that you are in Bedford! hehe. Having to arrange a day to go down and have the noise test done is completely inpractical for most people. And would probably cost more than they paid of the trackday to drive down just to do a test in terms of losing a day and fuel. Would you arrange a day off to go up to Oulton Park or Croft just for a noise test? A crazy idea isn't it?

Personally, if I really wanted to do Knockhill and they had a particularly strict noise limit that was different to the norm, then yes, I'd make arrangements to go there and get it checked (luckily they don't appear to have noise Nazi's installed by the local council). I've driven to Goodwood and been checked there before now (and failed) as have I at Castle Combe. All MSV circuits offer the test.

You'd drive all the way to a circuit, perhaps 200miles+ away just for a noise test? You may well be alone in that practice, most people would not entertain that at all!!

The other problem I have with the "test" and/or a Marshall doing is that it's no different to the owner doing it on the first session! Ie; why is it not a problem for a marshall to break the limit but a complete disaster if the owner does it? Either way the limit has been breached? that can't be undone, whether it's on a "test" or the first session of a trackday. It makes no sense at all to me.

It is a problem if the car breaches the noise limit, no matter who is driving it. It still has to be accounted for with the local council. Evo have been kicked off numerous times when they've tried to set a time there. If the car fails the test during a prior driveby noise test, it hasn't cost you anything (other than your time and fuel to get there). If you fail a driveby on your first lap on a trackday, it's cost you whatever you paid for that trackday (plus your time and fuel). So unless my maths and logic are totally screwed, they are totally different scenarios.

There's no maths involved here - I'm just trying to ascertain how the marshall can test your car and fail or pass it before the trackday, but on the trackday as soon as it's breached the car is effectively banned for the day? Can't you see this obvious point? that if you can do the test, fail it, and come back a day/week/whatever later on the trackday itself with a modified exhaust and it's all ok, why is it such an issue to fail the noise on the first session, be pulled in the pits and be allowed to rectify it? Fair enough, if you can't do anyhting about then so be it, but not to be allowed this chance doesn't sit right with the "marshall noise test".

In any case, there are much much better circuits out there (especially all the other MSV circuits) - Bedford is only slightly above an airfield venue IMO.

Indeed there are. Your money, your choice. The real attraction of Bedford is the fact it's by far the safest, most spacious venue with a decent surface in the country. Luckily for me, it's 10 minutes away and always used to be great fun for an evening session on one of the smaller circuits. Unluckily for me, I'm now too loud and can't use it with any degree of assurance that I'll pass the driveby limits.

Decent surface? have you been to the same place as me lol. It's the worst surface of any circuit in the country bar a full-on airfield, there's about 3 different types of surfaces, and very badly cambered corners where different parts meet.

err if it fails a test with the marshall driving its still booted off, it just didn't cost you a trackday to find out

[Sutol]

I see your point c_w and I'm sure that's what the new t&c's allow for

[c_w]

err if it fails a test with the marshall driving its still booted off, it just didn't cost you a trackday to find out

JP/MSV need to keep sound to a minimum. Apparently each time the noise meter level is triggered it is recorded. Forget the cost of the trackday; what is the difference to JP/MSV/Bedford Council/Whoever if the level is being triggered on a "test" or on the trackday itself?

I'm just being objective here, I've done several trackdays at Bedford and never had a problem as I don't have any noisy cars but do have friends that have, one of which suffered from the blackflag and your out rule.

Edited by c_w, 05 February 2010 - 02:20 PM.

[markiii]

my understanding is that the agreement from the council is that of a car fails its off, one lap is one lap regardless of whether they test it or you drive it the point being, accounting for a 1 car 1 incident and its off is fine, but letting it run all day whilst tripping would be something they couldn't account for i.e a given car tripping it once isn't an issue as long as they don't let it continue to run

[c_w]

my understanding is that the agreement from the council is that of a car fails its off, one lap is one lap regardless of whether they test it or you drive it

the point being, accounting for a 1 car 1 incident and its off is fine, but letting it run all day whilst tripping would be something they couldn't account for

i.e a given car tripping it once isn't an issue as long as they don't let it continue to run

Yep I appreciate that but it's the not allowing to fix it that is the problem. I think this is the reason they do it; so they don't have the hassle of monitoring the car if it's not done successfully.

However, it still doesn't really sit right with the whole noise test on a separate day. A trigger is a trigger whether it's, for example, 10 noisy cars coming for a noise test on a day or a few cars breaching the limit on a trackday. The whole situation is nonsense, and it's those idiots who probably sit out in their gardens 5miles away listening intently to try and hear a car going round Bedford (above the odd jet plane/local traffic )

[R1 nur]

Let it go!

[Stu-7]

Unfortunately, they just don't have any leeway on sound. The council downloads a copy of the noise meter logs after every event and anything over the limit and they're in the sh!t. ..........Bedford council clearly got fed up with this and imposed tighter limits and said every transgression would be logged for future reference when the Autodrome's operators licence came up for renewal. Clearly, they can't afford to jeopardise their Palmersport days or the investment they've made in the autodrome.

This is exactly it...the precarious nature of the relationship with the council accounts for the behaviour of the officials - it's understandable TBH. If MSV cannot account for a transgression - ie: the car in question left for the day - the place will get shut-down. You can understand why they are so zealous.

I had a similar experience back in Feb '08 when I had the VX (+Milltek). I got pulled for noise at 2 in the afternoon, having not had a problem all day. I was .2Db over on a drive by. One of the red-fleece-adorned-wannabee-BTCC-drones with a helmet with his name on the side took it out and did x2 drive-by's at the first noise sensor (about a gear shoft after exit of T1 hairpin), couldn't replicate the problem, so I got allowed back on. Went out and did a session and spent most of it on my own - no problem. Session after that, myself and a friend in a Honda Elise were lapping together (as we were prior to the 2pm transgression) only for one of us (me) to get pulled. I asked politely for the drone to take my car out again and prove it was me, and they refused. Because I had been involved in a prior transgression, I was asked not to return to the track. It didn't feel fair. But, seeing as it was 3 in the afternoon so i wasn't particularly bothered and packed my bags.

Since then, I've never bothered going back. I've always felt Bedford is a "corporate" track (versus a *real* one like Brands or Cadwell) and that's reflected in the behaviour of the staff. Always very polite IMO but equally anodine and unengaging (unlike other MSV circuits). Last time I was at Cadwell for the noise test they said "4,500k please.......yup keep going....more.....MORE! <me, bemused now at 6k revs> YEP, SOUNDS GREAT MATE...OFF YOU GO".....I didn't even see them with a Db meter
So there you go.....Bedford is really for a different cross section of trackday folk now. I bet if you took a straw poll from a cross section of regular track-dayers with modified cars - whether that be Evo, Subaru, Lotus, VX, Nissan or renault's, you would most likely see that very few of them use Bedford as a regular venue because of the widely known noise issues. It's just *accepted*. Also FWIW I think the track is not up to it anymore (compared to a Cadwell, Silverstone, or whatever) and since they made the modifications to the GT layout it's become habited owners of very high powered cars who love the "POWWWWEEERRRRRR....BRRRRRAKE" repetition of the straights and hairpins, because it makes them feel *really talented*. Less fun in a Lotus/VX comepared to a *proper* track.

[Sutol]

Double standards at the track too. I have just read their rules and this made me "You must not generate any significant tyre squeal. The sound carries a long way and can cause annoyance. Deliberate prolonged drifting is prohibited. Any car that creates excessive tyre squeal will be black flagged and given one warning. A second occurrence will mean termination of activity." Last time i was there (a few weeks back) there was a guy in a Scuby doing pax laps and he was drifting around the corners adjacent to the pitlane and there was not one black flag. He was doing this all day. Markiii was there to confirm. I think the driver was somehow connected to the circuit judging by the familiar way one of the marshalls referred to him. Double standards one of my pet hates

[markiii]

indeed Chris, that really peed me off as well no denying he could drive, but the guy was a total arse actually another thing with trackdays thats been bugging me "SLICKS" every trackday organisers rules seems to ban them so how come theres at least 2 nutters on every day I've been at lately running the buggers

[cheeky_chops]

"SLICKS" every trackday organisers rules seems to ban them

so how come theres at least 2 nutters on every day I've been at lately running the buggers

I got run off the tarmac by some cock in a GT3RS with slicks @ bedford - they were all buddys with the TDO so fcuk all was done about it

[Gizmotron]

I can understand the requirement for noise restrictions and i want to return to bedford as i have only driven on the track in my type R. Now that i have a Vx i am reluctant to go in it as the previous owner put on a milltek cat back and larini back box on and i am pretty sure that it will fail the drive by noise test. Apart from purchasing a standard back box how efficient would the bolt of bafflers be on the larini at reducing the db's to a level that would acceptable? I dont even know how many db's it is at the moment. I was going to purchase a meter but from hearing what others have said this may be a pointless exercise unless i drive down a long road with some one at the side of the road measuring me, even then how accurate as these meters compared to the ones at the tracks? how often are they calibrated? what if 2 cars go past the meter at the same time, surely this will trigger the meter and when the council see readings this how do bedford argue the case or do they just kick of the loudest cars on the day to save their bacon?

[Yellow_or_black?]

Likewise also experienced double-standards at Bedford - when I was there, the what's-it car they give passenger laps in was behaving atrociously - cutting me and others up in the bends. Nothing was done, needless to say It was supposed to be a Novice Day, and it was obvious (from their cars and driving) that many drivers there weren't novices - the rules state that this is a breach, but I wasn't aware of anyone being kicked off. I suppose it's hard to prove either way

[SteveA]

"SLICKS" every trackday organisers rules seems to ban them

A few do allow them, as long as you have a full roll cage.

Quote from Bookatracks web site

"Vehicles will NOT be permitted to run slick tyres unless fitted with suitable roll-over protection. In the case of a Caterfield-style car this means an FIA approved roll-bar. In the case of a saloon or hatchback this means a half or full roll cage. Cars without adequate roll-over protection are restricted to running road-legal tyres."

GT3RS' come out of the factory with a full cage. No excuse for overly aggressive driving though

Edited by SteveA, 08 February 2010 - 09:18 AM.

[Yellow_or_black?]

Found this whilst searching for something else: >> <<

Why would you do that - post a full email exchange, and your full name, on the internet

[darronwall]

COCKTARD? i was there recently,and was told many times in the breifing about noise,and after getting the noise board waved at me on every lap on my first outing felt sure a black flag was due,but on finishing my first stint i could not have found the msv staff more helpfull,giving me advise on where ther MIGHT be noise monitors and telling me to back off from other traffic ect,i could not have found them more helpfull

Edited by darronwall, 06 March 2010 - 10:48 PM.

[P11 COV]

COCKTARD?
i was there recently,and was told many times in the breifing about noise,and after getting the noise board waved at me on every lap on my first outing felt sure a black flag was due,but on finishing my first stint i could not have found the msv staff more helpfull,giving me advise on where ther MIGHT be noise monitors and telling me to back off from other traffic ect,i could not have found them more helpfull

That is not the norm nowadays. I tripped it once and was sent home. No discussion no chances.