58 replies to this topic

[Ouchie]

This topic has been covered so many times now. If only the search button worked 1 - 195 width tyres are not going to fit 8 inch wheels if you apply the same logic the 175 are for 7+ inch wheels. 2 - you don't need to tell any insurance company that you have fitted tyres that, as per manufacturer, can fit a 5.5 inch wheel. Why would a tyre fitter risk it if they thought it was so dodgy anyway. 3 - if people are talking about Eagle F1 tyres they need to specify which version (GSD3, asymmetric) 4 - Eagle F1 GSD3 is no longer available in 225 so you can't even get 4 of the same type anyway Kumho KU31 are available when they are in the country. Importer needs to wake up. Has anybody tried fitting 165 fronts and 205 rears? Would be interesting.

Edited by Ouchie, 16 July 2010 - 08:16 PM.

[Ouchie]

May i ask please?

Did vauxhall or lotus (whoever chose the bridgestones) make a mistake then? I know (or think that i remember) that thinner wheels/tyres were introduced on the fronts to dial-in a healthy amount of understeer. Is it that understeer that you are trying to eliminate? Why was it that they made such a fundamental mistake then? Is not the rigidity of the side walls an important part of the stability? Was their choice of the best all round compromise tyre of bridgestone so very wrong? [/questions questions questions..sorry]

I think that if it wasn't for the VX the 175 bridgestone would never have come into existence.

There's 2 thoughts about the understeery nature of the VX220

1. Vauxhall (and most others) cars have understeer for safety in order to protect the general public who bimmble about in their cars. i.e. like 99% of the driving population - passed their driving test then go from A to B for the next 60 years. So, expecting their customers to mainly be Vauxhall-ish they dialed in understeer. I wonder who the Vauxhall/Opel test driver is and what his credentials are. Must be a soul destroying job testing the Corsa has adequate understeer.

2. The Elise S1 was set up by Lotus to be a road legal track day car then sold to the general public who are not racing drivers. It had a little understeer then too much snap oversteer for the aspiring Sennas to handle. Hence the VX and S2 having a more understeery setup.

Anyway, all that is moot because I think Tim is just trying to save a few quid after suffering a punctured front tyre.

[LazyDonkey]

I have 175s on the front of my vx and i experience no problems with understeer. HTH

[G-Bob]

I have 175s on the front of my vx and i experience no problems with understeer. HTH

If you are understeering then it is not the tyres fault (unless you have about 1mm tread left), it simpl means you're going too fast into the corner or need a geometry setup.

195 tyres are fine on the front rims, but i'm not going to get into it too much. If you want opinions on tyres then read last weeks tyres thread, or the week before, or the week before or the week before.

They all start the same. I want cheaper tyres/ these bridgestones are rubbish.
....and end up with loads of people arguing about whether 195 will remove understeer and other people saying you should always get a 16/17 setup because that's what lotus intended.

[Paulus H]

Car Manufacturers will save a fraction of a penny on a component if they can. Due the number of sales, even a small fraction of a penny adds up over the production run of the car. Fitting narrow wheels with 195 tyres would save the manufacturers (in the case of where alloy wheels were fitted) several pounds per wheel in material and manufacturing costs I am sure there has never been a new car sold in the UK that has used the combination of 5.5 inch wheels and 195 tyres. Certainly not a performance car. If I am correct there will be a very good reason for this. If I am wrong I am quite happy to hold up my hands and say that my assertion is incorrect. Also I would suggest that the design and technology required for a fast road/track car such as a VX is very different to the technology required by Big Foot. Regarding 16/17 versus 17/17, all I can say is my car is better on 16/17's. I am sure there are plenty of VX's out there with uprated suspension, track tyres and modified geometry that handle fantastically with 17/17. However each to their own, let all enjoy our cars in our own way.

Edited by Paulus H, 17 July 2010 - 01:02 PM.

[tim king]

I would also be careful about fitting other than OEM standard tyres (i.e 175/55/17) to the original rims unless you're going to tell your insurance co. If you had an accident and they choose to inspect the car I would put money on them checking the tyres. Could suddenly find yourself in deep doo doo.

If putting 195/45/17 front tyre was the wrong thing to do .someone would have put something in the threads .As for the insurance ( WELL )
I Will still get some 195/45/17 and see for my self .as so many people use them.

[Paulus H]

Not trying to be mean.... I would phone your insurance before fitting them. An acquaintance of mine is an insurance assessor. His employer will always attempt to reject claims (and invalidate insurance) if the vehicle is no longer std. Fitting deacals, non std steering wheel or roof box are typical excuses for rejecting claims. If your insurance company is happy for you to fit 195's on 5.5 wheels then please let us know. I don't think any of the 16/17 guys are trying to be clever with their replies, it is just a matter of airing their best advice.

[Wolfstone]

Not trying to be mean....

I would phone your insurance before fitting them. An acquaintance of mine is an insurance assessor. His employer will always attempt to reject claims (and invalidate insurance) if the vehicle is no longer std. Fitting deacals, non std steering wheel or roof box are typical excuses for rejecting claims.

If your insurance company is happy for you to fit 195's on 5.5 wheels then please let us know.

I don't think any of the 16/17 guys are trying to be clever with their replies, it is just a matter of airing their best advice.

Thanks Paulus - exactly my point above. For the sake of a simple phone call you could mitigate any potential problems that you might have in the event of an accident. But hey, if others want to run the risk then that's up to them. I was simply trying to offer advice, which is what I thought the OP wanted and what this forum is supposed to be about. RIP

[Wolfstone]

I would also be careful about fitting other than OEM standard tyres (i.e 175/55/17) to the original rims unless you're going to tell your insurance co. If you had an accident and they choose to inspect the car I would put money on them checking the tyres. Could suddenly find yourself in deep doo doo.

If putting 195/45/17 front tyre was the wrong thing to do .someone would have put something in the threads .As for the insurance ( WELL )
I Will still get some 195/45/17 and see for my self .as so many people use them.

I was simply trying to offer some advice. Up to you if you want to take that advice or not. But for the sake of a phone call to your insurance company........???? Just hope you don't end up like your avatar and find your insurance co. get shi**y about paying out cos you've effectively modified your car and not told them.

[TheRealVXed]

I have not any track experience about 175 in relation to understeer. However in my opinion the car feels more suited to road driving in relation to tracking in grooves and ride on Britain's awful roads with the goodyears! Have only done track days on the Goodyears so maybe I'll put some Bridgestones back on at the next tyre change as now use the car on the road far less. Tyres are something on which no one will agree however, so you will just have to find out for yourself

[Cookies220]

In respect of the insurance issue, I'd add that insurers don't usually repudiate (kick out your claim) simply because you've changed your tyre from the OEM one when they get bald - HOWEVER - if you're intending to put a non standard tyre SIZE on your rim - that's when insurers and underwriters start to consider it a potential issue. Your policy advises in the small print that you must disclose all material facts when they offer you insurance (and throughout your term of cover). If you were unluky enough to have a blow out and subsequent accident on a tyre of non standard size (comparative to the rim), and hadn't disclosed this your insurers would probably look to repudiate your claim on that basis (whether it was the cause of the blow out or not). As has been said, for the sake of a two minute phone call, it's a no brainer to tell your insurers. By not disclosing information, you are potentially saving money on the insurance premium but you are effectively driving round with no insurance.

[tim king]

Not trying to be mean....

I would phone your insurance before fitting them. An acquaintance of mine is an insurance assessor. His employer will always attempt to reject claims (and invalidate insurance) if the vehicle is no longer std. Fitting deacals, non std steering wheel or roof box are typical excuses for rejecting claims.

If your insurance company is happy for you to fit 195's on 5.5 wheels then please let us know.

I don't think any of the 16/17 guys are trying to be clever with their replies, it is just a matter of airing their best advice.

thanks for all the advise . I will ring the insurance when i put 195,s on
I,m just finding out at mo .As iv owned my xv220 for almost 6 years .( it eats tyres )JUST NEED TO KEEP COSTS DOWN
IV Always bought the cheapest back tyres .Never been a problem ( yes it do,s over steer in the damp if pushed but so wot ? )fun car
Cheap car to run if like me you look for the cheap parts .And do most of work your self
PS HAVE FUN BE SAFE

[TheRealVXed]

Look here

Very interesting and should answer your questions on sizes etc.

Particularly the "Too wide or too narrow" section. There is no mention of problems oversizing/undersizing in relation to tyre coming off the rim, however does mention about handling. Interesting.

[chrisvx220]

I am sure there has never been a new car sold in the UK that has used the combination of 5.5 inch wheels and 195 tyres. Certainly not a performance car. If I am correct there will be a very good reason for this.

I have been told that the reason 195's werent fitted off the production line on these cars is that they make the car track all over the road and therefore werent desirable, however if you can live with the tracking/tramlining they are better in every other way. Not sure how true this is as i havent yet tried for myself.

[Ouchie]

Look here

Very interesting and should answer your questions on sizes etc.

Particularly the "Too wide or too narrow" section. There is no mention of problems oversizing/undersizing in relation to tyre coming off the rim, however does mention about handling. Interesting.

It also helps to show that 195/50/17 would be a far closer match to 175/55/17 than 195/45/17. Also that the rimwidthulator is OK with 195/50/17 on a 5.5 inch wheel. It's all approximation anyway but the option is there.

[tim king]

Look here

Very interesting and should answer your questions on sizes etc.

Particularly the "Too wide or too narrow" section. There is no mention of problems oversizing/undersizing in relation to tyre coming off the rim, however does mention about handling. Interesting.

It also helps to show that 195/50/17 would be a far closer match to 175/55/17 than 195/45/17. Also that the rimwidthulator is OK with 195/50/17 on a 5.5 inch wheel. It's all approximation anyway but the option is there.

Just had a look on the sight lot of reading .But seems that as long as you dont go bigger than 20mm bigger than standard its OK.
But still unsure about /40 or 45 or 50 ?

[mofish69]

Just spoke to my insurance company regarding the fitting of Kumhos on my front standard rims. (Admiral multicar policy) My premium would go up by £65 as it would be classed as a modification. It would still be a saving so no real worries there. Regards Mike.

[Wolfstone]

Just spoke to my insurance company regarding the fitting of Kumhos on my front standard rims. (Admiral multicar policy)
My premium would go up by £65 as it would be classed as a modification.

Regards Mike.

QED in relation to insurance companies treating different size tyres on standard rims as a mod. If you fit them but don't declare them, your insurance is likely to be null and void in the event of an accident.

[mofish69]

Your right there Mr Wolfstone. For the sake of a little extra on the insurance premium to keep it legit,its def a no brainer.

[iceman]

Good evening sir. Thank you dearly for your in-depth informative reply

May i ask please?

Did vauxhall or lotus (whoever chose the bridgestones) make a mistake then? I know (or think that i remember) that thinner wheels/tyres were introduced on the fronts to dial-in a healthy amount of understeer. Is it that understeer that you are trying to eliminate? Why was it that they made such a fundamental mistake then? Is not the rigidity of the side walls an important part of the stability? Was their choice of the best all round compromise tyre of bridgestone so very wrong? [/questions questions questions..sorry]

I think that if it wasn't for the VX the 175 bridgestone would never have come into existence.

Indeed. Weren't they made/designed specifically for the vx.

There's 2 thoughts about the understeery nature of the VX220

1. Vauxhall (and most others) cars have understeer for safety in order to protect the general public who bimmble about in their cars. i.e. like 99% of the driving population - passed their driving test then go from A to B for the next 60 years. So, expecting their customers to mainly be Vauxhall-ish they dialed in understeer. I wonder who the Vauxhall/Opel test driver is and what his credentials are. Must be a soul destroying job testing the Corsa has adequate understeer.

2. The Elise S1 was set up by Lotus to be a road legal track day car then sold to the general public who are not racing drivers. It had a little understeer then too much snap oversteer for the aspiring Sennas to handle. Hence the VX and S2 having a more understeery setup.

Makes perfect sense

Anyway, all that is moot because I think Tim is just trying to save a few quid after suffering a punctured front tyre.

I see.

Still, 'cheaper' is 'different from standard', so it's still relative

Best regards...