56 replies to this topic

[VX-GT]

Red bull exige is SC (is there a production SC variant?) I will speak to James Tucker

[Winstar]

Red bull exige is SC (is there a production SC variant?)
I will speak to James Tucker

Yes Exige S is production SC

[VX-GT]

TVS does stand for twin vortices system it basically makes the roots lobes more like a screw so that it does just realy on compression to compress the air it also has a pressure recovery componets as well making it more efficient (although IIRC it's not calculated the same as the a turbo so isn't quite as efficent)

As for brit car you'll have to check the rules I was looking the other day and the first stumbling block is this little gem

20 ENGINE
20.1 The engine crank case and head, must be original units specified for that manufacture of car but maybe modified. An alternative engine from the manufacturers range may be fitted to the car but it has to be the same make of the manufacturer of the car, for example a BMW engine in a BMW M3 may only be replaced by another BMW engine. In the case of a car manufacturer that does not produce their own engines, the engine must be of a manufacturer that has been offered for sale by the car manufacturer within the period of manufacture of the chassis. The cubic capacity of an engine may be modified but the resulting volume will determine the class the car is entered into where classes are separated by engine size. If alternative engines are fitted by an entrant after the commencement of the season regulation 1.8.8 will apply. Exceptions to this regulation are limited to the following manufacturers: Marcos Mantis, TVR Tuscan and Sagaris may fit engines from the Chevrolet range; Lotus Elise and Exige may fit engines from the Honda Range. These cars must still conform to the power to weight regulations for their class.
20.1.1 The Organisers must be notified if the engine size (capacity) is altered.
20.2 Location
The engine must be installed in the original engine compartment and the crankshaft axis must be
retained in the original orientation. Intake and exhaust manifold are free.
20.3 Induction Systems
20.3.1 Forced induction is permitted provided it was part of the original specification of the respective production engine. In the case of Supercharging or Turbocharging the nominal cylinder capacity will be multiplied by 1.4 and the car will pass into the class corresponding to the fictive volume thus obtained. This means a naturally aspirated engine must remain a naturally aspirated engine; and exhaust gas turbocharger engine must remain an exhaust gas turbocharger engine; a mechanical supercharged (compressor) engine must remain a mechanical supercharged (compressor)engine
20.3.2 The replacement of a supercharger or turbocharger not complying with the original system is
eligible, for example a Garret turbocharger can be replaced by a KKK turbocharger.
20.3.3 Turbochargers or superchargers boost pressure may be changed.

So unless you can get them to accept that the LSJ is from the same manufacture then a SC engine is out.

I see no solid objection

[Winstar]

I see no solid objection

Not soild but the way I interpret it, and that's always the grey area with regs, to be allowed a Supercharger then under 20.3.1 the engine must be fitted with one as original spec. The only engine that was is the LSJ, so would require this to be classed as the same manufacture and eligable to be fitted under 20.1 and used as the base engine.

[alanoo]

I WILL NOT EXCEED 25 m/s
If you wish to exceed that good luck

Hum I think I've done it, and the engine is now 10.000km old and has nothing to worry about (of course it wears more than a production Z22SE, but nothing unacceptable for these specs).
Next one will have DLC coated piston skirts instead of graphite ones and should wear lot less

EDIT : I lied, the engine is only 9600km old

Edited by alanoo, 06 October 2010 - 01:53 PM.

[VX-GT]

I see no solid objection

Not soild but the way I interpret it, and that's always the grey area with regs, to be allowed a Supercharger then under 20.3.1 the engine must be fitted with one as original spec. The only engine that was is the LSJ, so would require this to be classed as the same manufacture and eligable to be fitted under 20.1 and used as the base engine.

I totally agree
Thank you for the heads-up

I am writing to the Licensed Eligibility Scrutineer Mr Mike Hibbins

[Winstar]

I totally agree
Thank you for the heads-up

I am writing to the Licensed Eligibility Scrutineer Mr Mike Hibbins

No problems I had a very similar thought, hence looking at the regs.

keep us posted, I've seen the test bed data for the LSJ CC manifold as I used it as the basis for a CFD analysis of a Laminova CC manifold on the Lotus NEF V6. As I said above IMO the intake manifold isn't upto anything above 7000rpm (may be a bit more in 2L guise). It also makes a some compromises due to it being able to accomodate PAS and AC pumps. One of parts of my upcoming SC project is to look at redesigning the inlet it with the SC mounted low

[Mike (Cliffie)]

I see no solid objection

Not soild but the way I interpret it, and that's always the grey area with regs, to be allowed a Supercharger then under 20.3.1 the engine must be fitted with one as original spec. The only engine that was is the LSJ, so would require this to be classed as the same manufacture and eligable to be fitted under 20.1 and used as the base engine.

I totally agree
Thank you for the heads-up

I am writing to the Licensed Eligibility Scrutineer Mr Mike Hibbins

Hmm, as I read it, it looks like we can change the GM unit in the VX to any other GM unit and if that unit was originally supercharged then it is OK. The Cobalt Saturn Ion thingy is a GM car with a GM engine with a supercharger from standard so all should be OK.

[slindborg]

I see no solid objection

Not soild but the way I interpret it, and that's always the grey area with regs, to be allowed a Supercharger then under 20.3.1 the engine must be fitted with one as original spec. The only engine that was is the LSJ, so would require this to be classed as the same manufacture and eligable to be fitted under 20.1 and used as the base engine.

I totally agree
Thank you for the heads-up

I am writing to the Licensed Eligibility Scrutineer Mr Mike Hibbins

Hmm, as I read it, it looks like we can change the GM unit in the VX to any other GM unit and if that unit was originally supercharged then it is OK. The Cobalt Saturn Ion thingy is a GM car with a GM engine with a supercharger from standard so all should be OK.

That all depends on how they view the manufacturer as opposed to the Owner....

[siztenboots]

well if the elise/exige are allowed completely different powertrain from honda which never existed

[VX-GT]

I WILL NOT EXCEED 25 m/s
If you wish to exceed that good luck

Hum I think I've done it, and the engine is now 10.000km old and has nothing to worry about (of course it wears more than a production Z22SE, but nothing unacceptable for these specs).
Next one will have DLC coated piston skirts instead of graphite ones and should wear lot less

EDIT : I lied, the engine is only 9600km old

What type of racing do you run the engine in
what is your limiter set at
can you run at sustaained Max revs

[Exmantaa]

Interesting to see the headwork and cams for a ~9500 rpm Ecotec full race engine. Not many of those around... (If you are allowed there are some interesting turbo engines in the Ecotec engine family. )

[alanoo]

I WILL NOT EXCEED 25 m/s
If you wish to exceed that good luck

Hum I think I've done it, and the engine is now 10.000km old and has nothing to worry about (of course it wears more than a production Z22SE, but nothing unacceptable for these specs).
Next one will have DLC coated piston skirts instead of graphite ones and should wear lot less

EDIT : I lied, the engine is only 9600km old

What type of racing do you run the engine in
what is your limiter set at
can you run at sustaained Max revs

I can see what you mean,
It is true that I am not really racing and only doing trackdays so I have no idea if the engine could work on long racing sessions.
The limiter is set at 8500 rpm, sustained max rpm is useless due to power peaking at 7900 rpm, that one is true too

If I believe the ECU alerts log, I have 5 min 23 seconds of runtime at higher than 8300 rpm.


To be honest, this engine was never meant to last long and was definitely a development engine with many improvements still to come on the next one. Truth is we're somewhat surprised it lasted that much (and it still goes on), especially with the massive oil gears/oil pressure issues we got at the beginning.

[Exmantaa]

*** I've seen the test bed data for the LSJ CC manifold as I used it as the basis for a CFD analysis of a Laminova CC manifold on the Lotus NEF V6. As I said above IMO the intake manifold isn't upto anything above 7000rpm (may be a bit more in 2L guise). It also makes a some compromises due to it being able to accomodate PAS and AC pumps. One of parts of my upcoming SC project is to look at redesigning the inlet it with the SC mounted low

Exact what I still have in my back mind for the VX!
Sketched up a rough idea somewhere, but like youy say:
- Lower alternator to the "AC pump position"
- Mount SC upside down at alt. height position ( with oil filter "repositioning"?)
- Design new intake maniflod with proper runners & plenum plus efficient charge cooling.

Very interested in your LSJ manifold data.

[VX-GT]

It is refreshing to see such knowledge & enthusiasm I would like to give an open invitation to any/all interested parties tea & biscuits @ my place ANYTIME

[Exmantaa]

That rough sketch for a new inlet manifold with lowered SC.
Better flow, better cooling and lowered mass placement as a bonus...


Will need some serious fabbing....

[techieboy]

I'll have one set of everything, please.

[The Batman]

I'll have one set of everything, please.

plus a tea and hot choc

[siztenboots]

I'll have one set of everything, please.

plus a tea and hot choc

plus a holset please

[Winstar]

Exact what I still have in my back mind for the VX!
Sketched up a rough idea somewhere, but like youy say:
- Lower alternator to the "AC pump position"
- Mount SC upside down at alt. height position ( with oil filter "repositioning"?)
- Design new intake maniflod with proper runners & plenum plus efficient charge cooling.



Very interested in your LSJ manifold data.

Would be very hard to support somthing like that you need to keep the mass as close to the block as possible. I was thinking more along the lines of junking the current alternator and fitting somthing smaller (and more apropriate for the VX's current drain) above the SC

Unfortunaly I couldn't take the data with me when I left but I know the ball park figures

It is refreshing to see such knowledge & enthusiasm
I would like to give an open invitation to any/all interested parties
tea & biscuits @ my place ANYTIME

It makes a nice change from what wheels/exhaust/brake pads (delete as appropriate) should I fit or how to chav up and completly miss the point of a VX/elise, that T&M has turning into over the last couple of years.

may take you up on that and come with my laptop and calipers to to look at how to package things

Edited by Winstar, 07 October 2010 - 09:09 AM.