46 replies to this topic

[goodeg]

In this service bullitin on page 3 it says 68nm for 10.9 bolts.

[iVXT]

No idea on 12.9's but you should also consider swapping the camber shims when doing the HCB's. The oe ones with one hole and one slot are quite soft and have a habit of almost extruding out at the slot end resulting in a loss of the torque setting on the bolt. I've got my suspension in bits at the mo and both front sides have done this and the bolts had a slight wobble in them. Lotus supply a hardened camber shim with holes both ends that is supposed to stop this problem.

I suspect this was the cause of my HCB failure last year. I'll put some pictures up when I can be ar5sed and if my camera will do justice to the problem.

Only camber shims I can find on elise parts are these http://www.elisepart...5/camber-shims/ they appear to have slots so are these not the uprated Lotus ones that are recommend?

What this needs is an engineers opinion. I supply the 10.9 bolts as that is the Lotus spec upgrade.

When I looked into this first time out, I was advised 12.9 would not be a good bet as the bolts are subjected to a side loading when on track on sticky tyres and the 12.9 are more prone to shearing when subjected to side loads whereas the 10.9 would have more flex.

Saying that SteveA runs the 12.9 and he doesn't hang about on track.


I will continue to only supply the 10.9 even though 12.9 are cheaper and available in the UK off the shelf whereas I have to order in the 10.9 from Europe.

Cliffie could you supply the uprated camber shims FLD recommended along with uprated 10.9 bolts as a kit?

Thanks a lot.

As Geary from Elise Parts supplies the camber shims, I wouldn't get involved. Don't want to go encroaching on his business.

From the helpfully posted Lotus track use link that techieboy posted are these the bolts you supply Cliffie?
Bolt, 10.9 grade, M10x40, steering arm to hub carrier A117W7211F 2 off
Bolt, 10.9 grade, M10x60, steering arm to hub carrier A117W7212F 2 off
Bolt, 10.9 grade, M10x50, rear ball joint plinth to hub carrier A117W7213F 4 off

Thanks very much

[alanoo]

Yep I never found the Lotus special "track" uprated camber shims on the net, but they indeed exist and are, I think, a must have when upgrading the Hub carrier bolts

[Mike (Cliffie)]

No idea on 12.9's but you should also consider swapping the camber shims when doing the HCB's. The oe ones with one hole and one slot are quite soft and have a habit of almost extruding out at the slot end resulting in a loss of the torque setting on the bolt. I've got my suspension in bits at the mo and both front sides have done this and the bolts had a slight wobble in them. Lotus supply a hardened camber shim with holes both ends that is supposed to stop this problem.

I suspect this was the cause of my HCB failure last year. I'll put some pictures up when I can be ar5sed and if my camera will do justice to the problem.

Only camber shims I can find on elise parts are these http://www.elisepart...5/camber-shims/ they appear to have slots so are these not the uprated Lotus ones that are recommend?

What this needs is an engineers opinion. I supply the 10.9 bolts as that is the Lotus spec upgrade.

When I looked into this first time out, I was advised 12.9 would not be a good bet as the bolts are subjected to a side loading when on track on sticky tyres and the 12.9 are more prone to shearing when subjected to side loads whereas the 10.9 would have more flex.

Saying that SteveA runs the 12.9 and he doesn't hang about on track.


I will continue to only supply the 10.9 even though 12.9 are cheaper and available in the UK off the shelf whereas I have to order in the 10.9 from Europe.

Cliffie could you supply the uprated camber shims FLD recommended along with uprated 10.9 bolts as a kit?

Thanks a lot.

As Geary from Elise Parts supplies the camber shims, I wouldn't get involved. Don't want to go encroaching on his business.

From the helpfully posted Lotus track use link that techieboy posted are these the bolts you supply Cliffie?
Bolt, 10.9 grade, M10x40, steering arm to hub carrier A117W7211F 2 off
Bolt, 10.9 grade, M10x60, steering arm to hub carrier A117W7212F 2 off
Bolt, 10.9 grade, M10x50, rear ball joint plinth to hub carrier A117W7213F 4 off

Thanks very much

That is exactly what I have supplied in the past.

[iVXT]

No idea on 12.9's but you should also consider swapping the camber shims when doing the HCB's. The oe ones with one hole and one slot are quite soft and have a habit of almost extruding out at the slot end resulting in a loss of the torque setting on the bolt. I've got my suspension in bits at the mo and both front sides have done this and the bolts had a slight wobble in them. Lotus supply a hardened camber shim with holes both ends that is supposed to stop this problem.

I suspect this was the cause of my HCB failure last year. I'll put some pictures up when I can be ar5sed and if my camera will do justice to the problem.

Only camber shims I can find on elise parts are these http://www.elisepart...5/camber-shims/ they appear to have slots so are these not the uprated Lotus ones that are recommend?

What this needs is an engineers opinion. I supply the 10.9 bolts as that is the Lotus spec upgrade.

When I looked into this first time out, I was advised 12.9 would not be a good bet as the bolts are subjected to a side loading when on track on sticky tyres and the 12.9 are more prone to shearing when subjected to side loads whereas the 10.9 would have more flex.

Saying that SteveA runs the 12.9 and he doesn't hang about on track.


I will continue to only supply the 10.9 even though 12.9 are cheaper and available in the UK off the shelf whereas I have to order in the 10.9 from Europe.

Cliffie could you supply the uprated camber shims FLD recommended along with uprated 10.9 bolts as a kit?

Thanks a lot.

As Geary from Elise Parts supplies the camber shims, I wouldn't get involved. Don't want to go encroaching on his business.

From the helpfully posted Lotus track use link that techieboy posted are these the bolts you supply Cliffie?
Bolt, 10.9 grade, M10x40, steering arm to hub carrier A117W7211F 2 off
Bolt, 10.9 grade, M10x60, steering arm to hub carrier A117W7212F 2 off
Bolt, 10.9 grade, M10x50, rear ball joint plinth to hub carrier A117W7213F 4 off

Thanks very much

That is exactly what I have supplied in the past.

Are you going to be getting any more sets?

P.S. Could you point me in the direction of the uprated shims if poss?

Thanks a lot.

[Mike (Cliffie)]

[/quote] Are you going to be getting any more sets? P.S. Could you point me in the direction of the uprated shims if poss? Thanks a lot. [/quote] I will order more sets in at some point but don't hold your breath. Elise parts do the stainless steel shims which are about as good as you can get that is generally available IMHO.

[Arno]

Lotus told me 90Nm on the 10.9 and 68Mn on the 8.8.

M10 8.8's would pretty much strip the thread or at least stretch at 68Nm.

M10 8.8 are normally done up around 45Nm and this is in my original S2 Elise service manual for these bolts (before Lotus specced 10.9's).

in 10.9 grade M10's can handle around 72Nm (so the quoted 68Nm looks OK) and in 12.9 grade you could go up to 84Nm, although now you start to run the risk of ripping the thread out of the upright as you don't know it's steel type.

Bye, Arno.