939 replies to this topic

[Goosenka]

Religion is a very personal thing.

 

If you don't want it in your life, then don't.  No one should force anyone to have faith in something.  We should all respect each others feelings and beliefs.

 

 

[ghand]

Religion is a very personal thing.   If you don't want it in your life, then don't.  No one should force anyone to have faith in something.  We should all respect each others feelings and beliefs.    

That's absolutely true, no harm in friendly chat on your views and thoughts though, as long as folk don't get offended. I enjoy my chats with the Mormons when they call They haven't been for a while,

[Harry Hornet]

 

I enjoy my chats with the Mormons when they call They haven't been for a while,

 

 

One of my pals wifes who is a bitof a happy clapper took a couple of JW's in for a cup of tea and they accepted...wrong decision..my pal said that 4 hours later she had locked them in and was given them the 10th degree on where they were going wrong..they were last heard of dialling 999 and begging to be let out ...

[RabnaKS]

 

Religion is a very personal thing.   If you don't want it in your life, then don't.  No one should force anyone to have faith in something.  We should all respect each others feelings and beliefs.    

That's absolutely true, no harm in friendly chat on your views and thoughts though, as long as folk don't get offended. I enjoy my chats with the Mormons when they call They haven't been for a while,

 

Mr Hand, you have spelt morons wrong if you mean us orgers

I know a chap, He's built like a brick sh!t house & used to play RLFC for Super league side before they became Super league or pre Sky.  One of his lads got involved with I think it's this ABC stuff that seemed all the rage a few years ago.  He was very concerned with him going so often & he noted a change in him.  The BSH had a heart to heart with his wife & said he'll sort it once & for all & get him away from the brainwashing b4st4rds!  He came in to work full of spring & I asked how it went?  His reply was simple ' Awe, it wasn't that bad, they explained everything & what they were about, so I joined them'! I pi55ed myself laughing!

[ghand]

 

Religion is a very personal thing.   If you don't want it in your life, then don't.  No one should force anyone to have faith in something.  We should all respect each others feelings and beliefs.    

That's absolutely true, no harm in friendly chat on your views and thoughts though, as long as folk don't get offended. I enjoy my chats with the Mormons when they call They haven't been for a while,  

Mr Hand, you have spelt morons wrong if you mean us orgers I know a chap, He's built like a brick sh!t house & used to play RLFC for Super league side before they became Super league or pre Sky.  One of his lads got involved with I think it's this ABC stuff that seemed all the rage a few years ago.  He was very concerned with him going so often & he noted a change in him.  The BSH had a heart to heart with his wife & said he'll sort it once & for all & get him away from the brainwashing b4st4rds!  He came in to work full of spring & I asked how it went?  His reply was simple ' Awe, it wasn't that bad, they explained everything & what they were about, so I joined them'! I pi55ed myself laughing!

Well if he enjoys it and it makes him happy why not go for it ? Each to their own I always say. One mans meat and all that. I still think scotch is superior to god in so many ways.if all the religious fanatics just gave up god and took up Scotch the world would be a better place Is that a suicide bomb around your waist, oh no just some scotch for a p*ss up later As you may tell I have had a few Slight relax of my new years resolution, must try harder tomorrow. .

Edited by ghand, 06 January 2014 - 11:31 PM.

[Zuber]

 

Religion is a very personal thing.   If you don't want it in your life, then don't.  No one should force anyone to have faith in something.  We should all respect each others feelings and beliefs.    

That's absolutely true, no harm in friendly chat on your views and thoughts though, as long as folk don't get offended. I enjoy my chats with the Mormons when they call They haven't been for a while,

 

 

I'm really offended !

 

It's ok, I'm over it now...

 

On a serious note, keep it sensible and I don't see the issue.

[Rosssco]

 

The problem for those who don't believe in God is a failure of understanding of the nature of religious belief. They have arrived at their belief in their lack of belief of the existence of God without having made any real intellectual effort, otherwise as I pointed out earlier they would be agnostic rather than atheist.

 

Religious belief is not at all about belief, it's about experience. The declaration of belief in God is secondary to the primary experience in a person's life of the existence of God, a God, the God, monotheistic deity, whatever. The religious experience seems to vary greatly, but from that experience comes a secondary result which is a declaration of belief in the existence of God.

 

If you're a non believer, religious experience is alien to you and therefore not understood as being an experience rather than a belief. If you stick to a superficial empirical pseudo scientific method of argument it's easy/convenient to knock/dismiss those who believe in God.  Life is full of experiences for which there is no empirical evidence, if you just have the nous to look for them, and wonder, but as I always say, everyone is responsible for their own ignorance.

 

Even Einstein came to the conclusion that there is an intelligence of infinitely superior spirit that reveals itself in the little we can understand of reality.

Any non believers here who think they're brighter than Einstein, anyone?

 

'... agnosticism is the view that human reason is incapable of rationally justifying the belief that deities do, or do not, exist.' (quote from William Rowe, philosopher). Both theist and atheist believe and you can be either AND be agnostic. It's not mutually exclusive. And as you point out, the belief in God can be based on experience. The belief that there is no God can just as well be based on experience. Some of the remarks made in this thread for sure point in that direction.

 

As to Einstein's views on religion, I assume you refer to this quote: '... My religiosity consists in a humble admiration of the infinitely superior spirit that reveals itself in the little that we, with our weak and transitory understanding, can comprehend of reality ...'. That's true for everybody trying to understand reality a bit. The deeper you dig, the more you understand what you don't understand and what you probably can never understand. That can lead to religious beliefs, or not. Stephen Hawking tends to go into the opposite direction (from Einstein) for example. He's also pretty bright

 

 

 

 

 

 

My view on that particular Einstein quote, is that it (like many non-religious aspects of life) is viewed by someone who is religious, and believes in a God / higher power / noodle-based being as Einstein admitting belief in such a being. Rather, I take it as he took a pragmatic and more agnostic view in that he knew he didn't know all there was to know, but appreciated that the "spirit" of human understanding was not capable of fully comprehending the universe, but there is beauty in that as much as belief in a religion.

 

Seems more of a comment on the "religion" of science and understanding than a recognition of a 'God'...

[alexb]

Completely agree. Einstein was an agnostic theist, but also clearly stated that his view of 'God' was not one of a being interfering with day to day stuff. I guess today it would be said that God doesn't micro-manage . And although I'm a agnostic atheist, I have to say that I have a hard time to believe that something as complex as an eye (let alone the brain handling the signals) can evolve from something as basic as self replicating molecules. Still doesn't make me believe in any Gods, just wonder.

 

Kind of funny that in this thread there is less -actually no- shouting and more reasoned and reasonable opinions than on, just to take an example, rear ARB's

[LY_Scott]

no scuffers

[techieboy]

Nah, God's existence (or not) is hardly as contentious a subject as something like an ARB. Let alone the sacrilege that is a RARB on a Lotus chassis.

[turbobob]

Or a HAWB (hammer adjusted wish bone)

[ghand]

Completely agree. Einstein was an agnostic theist, but also clearly stated that his view of 'God' was not one of a being interfering with day to day stuff. I guess today it would be said that God doesn't micro-manage . And although I'm a agnostic atheist, I have to say that I have a hard time to believe that something as complex as an eye (let alone the brain handling the signals) can evolve from something as basic as self replicating molecules. Still doesn't make me believe in any Gods, just wonder.   Kind of funny that in this thread there is less -actually no- shouting and more reasoned and reasonable opinions than on, just to take an example, rear ARB's

Well a brain or an eye can evolve due to the time scale involved. We just can't imagine the time scale. billions of years get your head around that, a few weeks back one man could run a 4 min mile now 20 odd per running club can, we evolve. My Nan's husband was a captain on a fcuking sailing ship now we have things crawling over Mars. Wonder what we will all be doing in 100 years or 1000 years or 10000 years. God will be well obsolete by then that's for sure

Edited by ghand, 07 January 2014 - 09:49 PM.

[Zuber]

 

Completely agree. Einstein was an agnostic theist, but also clearly stated that his view of 'God' was not one of a being interfering with day to day stuff. I guess today it would be said that God doesn't micro-manage . And although I'm a agnostic atheist, I have to say that I have a hard time to believe that something as complex as an eye (let alone the brain handling the signals) can evolve from something as basic as self replicating molecules. Still doesn't make me believe in any Gods, just wonder.   Kind of funny that in this thread there is less -actually no- shouting and more reasoned and reasonable opinions than on, just to take an example, rear ARB's

Well a brain or an eye can evolve due to the time scale involved. We just can't imagine the time scale. billions of years get your head around that, a few weeks back one man could run a 4 min mile now 20 odd per running club can, we evolve. My Nan's husband was a captain on a fcuking sailing ship now we have things crawling over Mars. Wonder what we will all be doing in 100 years or 1000 years or 10000 years. God will be well obsolete by then that's for sure

 

 

Age old Atheist answer to the unexplainable. I don't accept that for a minute...  

Edited by Zuber, 08 January 2014 - 06:33 AM.

[alexb]

 

 

Completely agree. Einstein was an agnostic theist, but also clearly stated that his view of 'God' was not one of a being interfering with day to day stuff. I guess today it would be said that God doesn't micro-manage . And although I'm a agnostic atheist, I have to say that I have a hard time to believe that something as complex as an eye (let alone the brain handling the signals) can evolve from something as basic as self replicating molecules. Still doesn't make me believe in any Gods, just wonder.   Kind of funny that in this thread there is less -actually no- shouting and more reasoned and reasonable opinions than on, just to take an example, rear ARB's

Well a brain or an eye can evolve due to the time scale involved. We just can't imagine the time scale. billions of years get your head around that, a few weeks back one man could run a 4 min mile now 20 odd per running club can, we evolve. My Nan's husband was a captain on a fcuking sailing ship now we have things crawling over Mars. Wonder what we will all be doing in 100 years or 1000 years or 10000 years. God will be well obsolete by then that's for sure

 

 

Age old Atheist answer to the unexplainable. I don't accept that for a minute...  

 

Have a look at: http://en.wikipedia....tion_of_the_eye. It fits the theory and you still don't need a deus ex machina. It's just taking the theory to it's limits. Still doesn't say anything about God, only that a God is not strickly necessary.

[ghand]

 

 

Completely agree. Einstein was an agnostic theist, but also clearly stated that his view of 'God' was not one of a being interfering with day to day stuff. I guess today it would be said that God doesn't micro-manage . And although I'm a agnostic atheist, I have to say that I have a hard time to believe that something as complex as an eye (let alone the brain handling the signals) can evolve from something as basic as self replicating molecules. Still doesn't make me believe in any Gods, just wonder.   Kind of funny that in this thread there is less -actually no- shouting and more reasoned and reasonable opinions than on, just to take an example, rear ARB's

Well a brain or an eye can evolve due to the time scale involved. We just can't imagine the time scale. billions of years get your head around that, a few weeks back one man could run a 4 min mile now 20 odd per running club can, we evolve. My Nan's husband was a captain on a fcuking sailing ship now we have things crawling over Mars. Wonder what we will all be doing in 100 years or 1000 years or 10000 years. God will be well obsolete by then that's for sure  

  Age old Atheist answer to the unexplainable. I don't accept that for a minute...    

Have a look at: http://en.wikipedia....tion_of_the_eye. It fits the theory and you still don't need a deus ex machina. It's just taking the theory to it's limits. Still doesn't say anything about God, only that a God is not strickly necessary.

It's the survival of the fittest that is also part of evolution. As time went on and creatures evolved the ones more sensitive to say light changes of another simple life form coming to eat them would survive and evolve to sense more things around them. This sensing would in time be focused in one area and you have the beginning of an eye. The ones that could move fastest survived so evolved to do that. In our micro second on earth we have seen animals change colour to match new environments Even in a very short timer that works, look at some of the creatures living near that reactor leak in Russia that are already producing young that can withstand the radioactivity better. Given enough time it's obvious evolution works it's all been well proved. You can see legs disappearing on lizard like creatures oh a snake take the fish that live in caves do they still have eyes err that will be a no they have evolved in a very short time to use other senses and bin the eyes compleatly At the end of the day in that massive time scale of billions upon billions anything can evolve into anything. I think some can't see evolution because they can't get the time scale involved, it's hard for us to comprehend that level of time.

[Zuber]

It's the survival of the fittest that is also part of evolution. As time went on and creatures evolved the ones more sensitive to say light changes of another simple life form coming to eat them would survive and evolve to sense more things around them. This sensing would in time be focused in one area and you have the beginning of an eye. The ones that could move fastest survived so evolved to do that. In our micro second on earth we have seen animals change colour to match new environments Even in a very short timer that works, look at some of the creatures living near that reactor leak in Russia that are already producing young that can withstand the radioactivity better. Given enough time it's obvious evolution works it's all been well proved. You can see legs disappearing on lizard like creatures oh a snake take the fish that live in caves do they still have eyes err that will be a no they have evolved in a very short time to use other senses and bin the eyes compleatly At the end of the day in that massive time scale of billions upon billions anything can evolve into anything. I think some can't see evolution because they can't get the time scale involved, it's hard for us to comprehend that level of time.

 

 

I reckon you might be confusing species adapting with new species developing.

 

YouTube is full of this stuff. Some quality, some not so much...

 

Very quick search on the eye thing and this one turned up

 

 

which I thought was interesting.

 

As well as

 

 

that just happened to be a link there.

 

Neither of from my camp, but interesting none the less...

 

Me, I can just watch some good quality documentaries on the BBC and seems clear as day that there is more to it than an extremely long sequence of accidents over an extremely extremely long period of time... Be it creatures like Ants, Bees, Birds, Fish and they way they act/behave to the way body works or so many other things.

 

And it's been obvious to most people since there were people. Until we started being brainwashed into thinking we were stupid/backwards if we didn't accept it was all a bunch of coincidences...

 

Bedsides, it all happened in 5000 years didn't it ? (No I/Muslims don't believe that...)

 

 

[Zuber]

By the way, on the whole don't offend thing.

 

Edit:

Just don't bring up Richard Dawkins. I'll be offended. First hand experience, I think he is an idiot...

 

I never said he wasn't clever, I said he was an idiot...

Edited by Zuber, 08 January 2014 - 10:40 AM.

[ghand]

Age old atheist question. Why did some lizards get shorter legs over time till they changed into a snake? Some are still in this process of evolution and are not quite snakes yet, they still have spurs where the legs once belonged in a few hundred years they will be full blown snakes. The museums are full of evolutionary trails it's all been proved beyond doubt. You say unexplained, sorry I find that unbelievable. You have been reading the wrong books They have even proved you can get the basic building blocks of life, the right amino acids an other ingredients from Asda, throw them in a blend with a pp3 battery and produce basic life. Ok maybe slightly more technical but you get my drift Talking of drift, genetic drift and genetic mutation also pop into evolution, gets a bit heavy for me .

Edited by ghand, 08 January 2014 - 11:12 AM.

[ghand]

By the way, on the whole don't offend thing.   Edit: Just don't bring up Richard Dawkins. I'll be offended. First hand experience, I think he is an idiot...   I never said he wasn't clever, I said he was an idiot...

Ok.

[casino]

On nature and evolution stuff.

 

You turn on a light at home, its the electricity that causes the glow, mostly. But as its your wish to have light, you cause it to happen.

The electricity and glass and wire stuff in the bulb is just doing the hard work.

 

Same thing with God, He's got to have some sort of mech to bring about life and change. We call this stuff nature.

So ok nature is doing the hard work, but its still carrying out God's wish.

 

Simple stuff. And aint it a beautiful sunny place down here at the moment too. Nice one nature.