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Do You Believe In A God?


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Poll: God belief (119 member(s) have cast votes)

Do you believe in a god?

  1. No. I have no good evidence to believe in any god (77 votes [64.71%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 64.71%

  2. Don't know. I haven't thought about it much (3 votes [2.52%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 2.52%

  3. Don't know. I have thought about it but can't decide. (12 votes [10.08%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 10.08%

  4. Yes. I believe in a god but can't really describe why (7 votes [5.88%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 5.88%

  5. Yes. I believe in a god and can describe this god and why I believe it is exists. (12 votes [10.08%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 10.08%

  6. I'm not religious but spiritualist. (4 votes [3.36%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 3.36%

  7. I have no opinion. (4 votes [3.36%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 3.36%

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#521 slindborg

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 08:00 AM

Is it any different to the various flavours of Christianity? Aside from the more public side of the extremes.....Yes there are extremes in everything, even atheism :lol:

 

 

 

 

 

Zuber, just watched your video and I can honestly say it's the most mixed up faith on the planet by the sound of things. Millions believe one bit millions believe other bits. Also all sorts of different translations are going on. One top man says one thing one says another. This bit is wrong this bit is ok. What a mess when you all cant understand the one book. My book is much more easy to understand, have a read. Gods don't exist and if they do we are still better off without them , the end. :lol: .

 



#522 Zuber

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 09:54 AM

Is it any different to the various flavours of Christianity? Aside from the more public side of the extremes.....Yes there are extremes in everything, even atheism :lol:

 

 

Now now, don't be like that. Gordon isn't 'That' bad. You need to make allowances for his age :)



#523 Zuber

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 11:50 AM

 

 

If you read the Koran you realise it's just the Old Testament, that's been heavily messed about with in many places by translators with an agenda.

Not read the old testament :) But given that Islam claims to be a follow on of the same message/faith with course corrections. I would expect there to be a great deal in common. Just thought it worth posting something from someone with a more in-depth understanding, given the current troubles. See lots of claims that Islam is a religion evil blah blah, based on a very shallow analysis (or an agenda of course).
Ok if it's not evil nip over to some full on Muslim country or parts of this country and tell them all your packing it all in and leaving the faith to become a Gedi night :lol: oh and good luck you may just need to be a Gedi knight to get away alive :lol: And don't for god sake tell them your gay, unless you can fly from high buildings :lol:

 

 

I'm feeling some Deja-Vu here. Ground already covered. Memory not as good as it used to be Gordon, or have you been drinking (flogging offence)  :D

 

The Apostasy thing is interesting, many people don't think the penalty applies in current circumstances. The argument being that it was tantamount to treason in the context it was being applied.

 

As far as homosexuality is concerned, no explanations or excuses on this one. It is clear cut not allowed in Islam. And lots of other faiths to be fair.

 

There are several 'Christian' countries where you wouldn't be treated much better. In Europe, some parts of the church seem to have caved in under pressure and taken a strange (to me) 'who am I to judge' approach rather than condemning it as sinful.

 

From an Islamic perspective, one thing I notice when looking at 'proper application' (personal observation, could be wrong), is there is a significant emphasis on proof and witnesses etc.

 

So in practical terms it is as much about not spreading wrong practices as the acts themselves. So, though the acts themselves would be sinful (clear cut), it is more the publicising and encouraging that is likely to land you in trouble (in worldly terms).

 

 

Zuber, just watched your video and I can honestly say it's the most mixed up faith on the planet by the sound of things. Millions believe one bit millions believe other bits. Also all sorts of different translations are going on. One top man says one thing one says another. This bit is wrong this bit is ok. What a mess when you all cant understand the one book. My book is much more easy to understand, have a read. Gods don't exist and if they do we are still better off without them , the end. :lol:  

 

Keeping in mind that the faith is intended to be applicable to judgement day, you can understand the need for some of it to be guiding rather than specific, and the need to reflect on it's meaning and intent in differing contexts. Hence the emphasis of those that study the faith in depth on looking at the context of the various elements of revelation, look at the hadith for further understanding etc.

 

We do seem to have lost a great deal of the intellectual capability when it comes to interpretation and application of principles. And we get the 'do it exactly like they did 1400 years ago' brigade, which I don't have a problem with for some things (e.g. worship) but need to apply in appropriate context for others.

 

Going back to Islam and the whole IS thing. 

 

It's worth pointing out that historically, Muslims have managed to get on with those of other faiths rather well. Not perfect, but very good relative to others of the same times etc.

 

Obvious examples, some of the Non Muslim communities currently being attacked in all this chaos. They are actually still there in the first place, even after millennia of Muslim rule. Bethlehem still has it's church for example. d is an excellent example on the conquest of Jerusalem.

 
Again, personal observation. I think one mistake many Muslims make is to say 'something was done then, so it is ok now'.
 
So, for example. Lets take slavery. You couyld say, slavery was allowed during the times of the prophet, so slavery is ok...
 
But Islam didn't introduce slavery. Slavery already existed. Islam introduced restrictions and direction on better treatment of those in slavery. Encouraged the freeing of slaves.
 
So, for people to reintroduce slavery and say it's ok because it was ok 1400 years ago isn't really going with the spirit of it.
 
That (to me), in part is the difference between looking for the truth in the Quran etc. and looking for justification for what you want to do. Can't remember the exact quote etc. but it goes something along the lines of people will find in it what they seek... 
 
Moving to your last point.
 

The problem with 'Gods don't exist...' (apart from being wrong) is that (imho) it leads to gradual decline, since there is no fundamental guiding principle and everything is subject to gradual erosion without an original source to draw on to help reverse/correct this.

 

Ultimately, if we are to go Darwinian, then it is just survival of the fittest and every man for himself. With some collective/co-operative working from time to time as it suits our needs. But first sign of long term advantage and dump it in favour of personal benefit.

 

Besides, what's the point, it's all just a bunch of accident (something you can relate to Gordon  :D ) ...

 

Apologies for the long winded reply, more me thinking out loud that anything else...


Edited by Zuber, 24 July 2015 - 12:13 PM.


#524 ghand

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 12:20 PM

Your waffling on and not getting my drunken point :lol: yes old ground again and you waffled over it last time from what I remember :lol: Leave the faith you must be killed, if your gay you must also be killed. Now come on Zubber is that correct or not ? A simple yes or no please :lol: no politician type answer Just give me a one word answer please Then you can waffle on about this one, :lol: out of the millions of Muslims how many are totaly disillusioned and want to leave and out of the millions of Muslims what percentage do you think are gay ?

#525 ghand

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 12:33 PM

That's a classic quote 'the Apostasy thing is interesting' interesting :lol: try telling all the dead folk how interesting it is :lol:

#526 Zuber

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 01:07 PM

Sorry, I can't give a one word answer on something where opinions differ. But if you are Gay, active and open about it, then I would advise choosing your holiday destinations carefully...



#527 slindborg

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 02:55 PM

I'm not (might be a surprise to many) and I choose my holiday destinations very carefully :lol:

Sorry, I can't give a one word answer on something where opinions differ. But if you are Gay, active and open about it, then I would advise choosing your holiday destinations carefully...

 



#528 alexb

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 03:38 PM

The problem with 'Gods don't exist...' (apart from being wrong) is that (imho) it leads to gradual decline, since there is no fundamental guiding principle and everything is subject to gradual erosion without an original source to draw on to help reverse/correct this.

 

Ultimately, if we are to go Darwinian, then it is just survival of the fittest and every man for himself. With some collective/co-operative working from time to time as it suits our needs. But first sign of long term advantage and dump it in favour of personal benefit.

 

Besides, what's the point, it's all just a bunch of accident (something you can relate to Gordon  :D ) ...

 

 

The guiding principles do not have to be religious. Can be a set of moral, ethical and philosophical values rooted in humanity without the smoke and mirrors of religion. Us atheists already exist quite a number of years and we're not gradually eroding to a state of anarchism or kill our neighbours because they don't agree with our way of thinking or living or we don't like the way they look.

 

Also nothing wrong with believing it's all happenstance. Enjoy the fact you're here without spending too much time on judging, or even worse bothering, others. There is no meaning to meaning anyhow.  



#529 ghand

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 04:07 PM

Sorry, I can't give a one word answer on something where opinions differ. But if you are Gay, active and open about it, then I would advise choosing your holiday destinations carefully...

You've wriggled out of it again, :lol: You CAN give a one word answer but you won't me thinks.its in black and white in your book I suspect, a lot of Muslims interviewed on TV wriggle out of answering to look better to non Muslims. Come on give it one more go for me :lol: Apostasy yes or no simple, look it up if you can't remember :lol:

#530 ghand

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 04:10 PM

The problem with 'Gods don't exist...' (apart from being wrong) is that (imho) it leads to gradual decline, since there is no fundamental guiding principle and everything is subject to gradual erosion without an original source to draw on to help reverse/correct this.   Ultimately, if we are to go Darwinian, then it is just survival of the fittest and every man for himself. With some collective/co-operative working from time to time as it suits our needs. But first sign of long term advantage and dump it in favour of personal benefit.   Besides, what's the point, it's all just a bunch of accident (something you can relate to Gordon  :D ) ...  
  The guiding principles do not have to be religious. Can be a set of moral, ethical and philosophical values rooted in humanity without the smoke and mirrors of religion. Us atheists already exist quite a number of years and we're not gradually eroding to a state of anarchism or kill our neighbours because they don't agree with our way of thinking or living or we don't like the way they look.   Also nothing wrong with believing it's all happenstance. Enjoy the fact you're here without spending too much time on judging, or even worse bothering, others. There is no meaning to meaning anyhow.  
Couldn't agree more. It's only religious folk who need morals from a book.

#531 Zuber

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 04:58 PM

 

Sorry, I can't give a one word answer on something where opinions differ. But if you are Gay, active and open about it, then I would advise choosing your holiday destinations carefully...

You've wriggled out of it again, :lol: You CAN give a one word answer but you won't me thinks.its in black and white in your book I suspect, a lot of Muslims interviewed on TV wriggle out of answering to look better to non Muslims. Come on give it one more go for me :lol: Apostasy yes or no simple, look it up if you can't remember :lol:

 

 

Don't know. There is a difference of opinion amongst those that understand this stuff better than me. That was the point being explained.

 

It's not about what I would like...



#532 Zuber

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 05:02 PM

Couldn't agree more. It's only religious folk who need morals from a book.

 

 

But where are these morals grounded, how did they come about ?

 

In Europe for example, there was a historically a religious tradition. Much of what is considered right/wrong has evolved from that. In some cases in agreement, in others opposition due to misuse.

 

You visit some parts of the world, they have very different customs and practices (not necessarily tied to any religion). Some of these would be considered abhorrent here.

 

What makes 'us' right and 'them' wrong ?

 

And if it is all just a bunch of chemicals that came together through a bunch of coincidences, why does it matter ?

What's the point, who cares anyway. do what you want the everyone else can 'Go to hell'... If it all goes pair shaped and they lock you up. Just kill yourself, it doesn't matter any way. If they kill you for it, saved you the hassle :)

 

 


Edited by Zuber, 24 July 2015 - 05:05 PM.


#533 Foxy

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 06:19 PM

The problem with 'Gods don't exist...' (apart from being wrong)

It is at this point that all credibility is lost.

#534 Zuber

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 06:29 PM

 

The problem with 'Gods don't exist...' (apart from being wrong)

It is at this point that all credibility is lost.

 

 

Really, not sure why. Simply stating what I think, much the same as others are proposing religion is wrong and God doesn't exist ?

 

What's your reasoning ?



#535 Foxy

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 07:56 PM

A few hundred years ago people thought the earth was flat. Witches were drowned. All sorts of people were locked up in lunatic asylums. Today's society is (for the most part) much more civilised and we now know better. Science has helped us understand the world around us. To state that anyone who believes that there is no God is wrong is quite a statement, particularly when you have nothing to back it up. chinky chinky

#536 Zuber

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 08:11 PM

Unlike those saying flatly that there isn't a God ? Sorry, still don't get it. Talk of witches, flat earth are not relevant to the point. Just a way of trying to make one side look clever at the expense of another. Religion is not anti science. Though it does provide direction on how what we learn is used.

#537 ghand

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 08:26 PM

Couldn't agree more. It's only religious folk who need morals from a book.  

  But where are these morals grounded, how did they come about ?   In Europe for example, there was a historically a religious tradition. Much of what is considered right/wrong has evolved from that. In some cases in agreement, in others opposition due to misuse.   You visit some parts of the world, they have very different customs and practices (not necessarily tied to any religion). Some of these would be considered abhorrent here.   What makes 'us' right and 'them' wrong ?   And if it is all just a bunch of chemicals that came together through a bunch of coincidences, why does it matter ? What's the point, who cares anyway. do what you want the everyone else can 'Go to hell'... If it all goes pair shaped and they lock you up. Just kill yourself, it doesn't matter any way. If they kill you for it, saved you the hassle :)    
Morals for me are more or less what you would be happy with if it happened to you or your friends and family. It's not rocket science to know what's right and what's not. Would you be happy if someone stole from you ? Well I will just look in this old book to check FFS :lol:

#538 Zuber

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 08:45 PM

Fair point, why do we even bother with things like governments, laws etc. It's all just common sense, we will just figure it out between us. By the way, I have a strong suspicion chickens don't like being plucked, mosquitoes don't like being splatted and rodents don't like being driven away from helping themselves to their daily bread in your kitchen. Hope you take account of these when checking your moral compass. There are people out there that wouldn't do any of those and think you killing a chicken to feed yourself when there are perfectly good alternatives is appalling. Suggest going veggi, wearing a mask and treading very carefully from now on. Or are animals exempt from the be nice to each other/live and let live principle ? Just an example...

Edited by Zuber, 24 July 2015 - 08:46 PM.


#539 Harry Hornet

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 08:51 PM

..time to switch to "talking shite on a friday night" thread... :)



#540 slindborg

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Posted 24 July 2015 - 08:54 PM

To believe there is no god, required the belief in the concept of god..... Ie you can't not believe without believing. I know there isn't (until my knowledge is proven otherwise), therefore there are no beliefs to question.




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