939 replies to this topic

[Zuber]

Not sure I follow your logic. You can think there isn't, but how can you know there isn't (short of divine inspiration).

[Zuber]

..time to switch to "talking shite on a friday night" thread...

Don't worry Harry, back to work next week so won't have so much time on my hands. Original post was just to give people a broader perspective than the 'death to all infidels' currently pervading our screens, which hopefully is achieved Was I expecting the follow on, I had complete faith in Gordon...

Edited by Zuber, 24 July 2015 - 09:08 PM.

[anz3001]

Hard to discuss this lol. I can see why somebody could draw strength from a book or living a certain way. I can see that it is entirely possible there is something much bigger than we are, and that it may have an affect on us. I cannot see how people can stubbornly argue either end of the scale as if it was fact. I cannot see ghosts.

[Harry Hornet]

 

..time to switch to "talking shite on a friday night" thread...

Don't worry Harry, back to work next week so won't have so much time on my hands. Original post was just to give people a broader perspective than the 'death to all infidels' currently pervading our screens, which hopefully is achieved Was I expecting the follow on, I had complete faith in Gordon...

 

 

..its a tough one..

 

..a bit like the universe ends somewhere..but what is there after the end..

 

..my view is..whats the point of it all..so there must be something...(I hope or is it faith that there is something)...

 

HH  

[Zuber]

End of the universe. You can go bananas if you dwell on Infinity for too long...

 

http://topdocumentar...rous-knowledge/

Edited by Zuber, 24 July 2015 - 09:28 PM.

[Foxy]

Unlike those saying flatly that there isn't a God ? Sorry, still don't get it. Talk of witches, flat earth are not relevant to the point. Just a way of trying to make one side look clever at the expense of another. Religion is not anti science. Though it does provide direction on how what we learn is used.

So, what you're saying is that you'll believe something exists without evidence. What I'm saying is that I won't believe it exists without evidence. The flat earth and witches analogies were just to demonstrate how modern society has moved on. It is my view that in time the fact that people believed in God will be viewed with the same disbelief. Eta. Creation and the universe are mind boggling. One day science will have the answers.

Edited by Foxy, 24 July 2015 - 11:00 PM.

[oblomov]

You're simply using semantics as a rhetorical device in an attempt to make a point which may superficially appear valid but in fact is without merit.

To believe there is no god, required the belief in the concept of god..... Ie you can't not believe without believing. I know there isn't (until my knowledge is proven otherwise), therefore there are no beliefs to question.

 

 

[NickA]

If you're religious, why do you give a feck that Bob/Harold/Gandalf isn't?  Can't you just keep your mouth shut with a wry smirk instead?

[Harry Hornet]

..well I believe that Watford are going to win the Pemiership this year...you may smirk now but you should only when its not possible...so Come on you Golden Boys....like Zuber beliefs....bring it on....

 

HH

[slindborg]

That's the point though, there is no merit in any of the three/four outcomes.....

You're simply using semantics as a rhetorical device in an attempt to make a point which may superficially appear valid but in fact is without merit.

To believe there is no god, required the belief in the concept of god..... Ie you can't not believe without believing. I know there isn't (until my knowledge is proven otherwise), therefore there are no beliefs to question.  

 

[ghand]

 

Sorry, I can't give a one word answer on something where opinions differ. But if you are Gay, active and open about it, then I would advise choosing your holiday destinations carefully...

You've wriggled out of it again, You CAN give a one word answer but you won't me thinks.its in black and white in your book I suspect, a lot of Muslims interviewed on TV wriggle out of answering to look better to non Muslims. Come on give it one more go for me Apostasy yes or no simple, look it up if you can't remember  

  Don't know. There is a difference of opinion amongst those that understand this stuff better than me. That was the point being explained.   It's not about what I would like...

Ok give me a wriggle free one word yes or no on this question I have modified to give you wriggle room Do 99% of Muslim country's practice the Muslim law of killing gays and those who leave the faith ? Have a stab at that one for me in one word

[ghand]

Fair point, why do we even bother with things like governments, laws etc. It's all just common sense, we will just figure it out between us. By the way, I have a strong suspicion chickens don't like being plucked, mosquitoes don't like being splatted and rodents don't like being driven away from helping themselves to their daily bread in your kitchen. Hope you take account of these when checking your moral compass. There are people out there that wouldn't do any of those and think you killing a chicken to feed yourself when there are perfectly good alternatives is appalling. Suggest going veggi, wearing a mask and treading very carefully from now on. Or are animals exempt from the be nice to each other/live and let live principle ? Just an example...

OMG my moral compass regarding food, bad bad choice for you I think My morals when killing for food takes into account unnecessary suffering of said food. Your god gave me incisors to eat meat. But in this day and age he gave us a stun gun and a humane bolt gun which kills the brain of an animal in milli seconds. Your god wants you to run a knife from one neck artery across the wind pipe and out through the other vein while the animal is alive and feels it all watching its own blood spurt out and choking on its blood as it tries to breath through a cut throat in agony It does Not say in the Koran the animal still needs to be alive when you drain it's blood, thats another stupid translation from some sheep herders thousands of years back.the draining of blood was just normal hygiene in hot country's. Saying a prayer over a dead animal to make it ok for you to eat was just a follow on from all religions who pray over food like saying grace for the Christians. Even some Muslim scholars say this but the millions who just follow blindly like sheep carry on the cruel act But what really pisses me off is the practice is going on on MY food. I don't want an animal suffering in agony to go on my plate. I am happy with a quick kill and a nice juicy stake though

[ghand]

Or even a nice juicy steak, which is better than wood

[Foxy]

If you start correcting your typos Gordon we'll be here all day! And I fear Zubs won't be giving any satisfactory responses on the Halal question, although he will be convinced he's right. That's the power of religion.

[alexb]

There is a whole lot of gray between the black of morals based on religion and the total anarchy of 'there is no meaning to it, so let's have a ball'. You don't need religion to not go YOLO. People get along, more or less, without the guiding principles forced upon them by religion. You can and will have social structures without religion.

 

Talking about believing, I firmly believe that our universe is pure happenstance, that human kind is there by sheer coincidence and that I'm here for no reason whatsoever. Doesn't make me a murderer. Does make me think now and then why I do things, which is only healthy I feel. Doing things without question in my mind is rather dangerous, but it also seems to a large extent that's what religion is about.

[ghand]

If you start correcting your typos Gordon we'll be here all day! And I fear Zubs won't be giving any satisfactory responses on the Halal question, although he will be convinced he's right. That's the power of religion.

Yep could take a while, I blame the phone or the scotch or my eyes or maybe just plain stupid

[mbes2]

Can god fix my p0170 error code... 

[Zuber]

Typed a long reply (as usual) and lost it while looking at another whatsapp... Got a few other things on my plate now (damned heathen vandals) Short version (maybe)... Foxy, No problem with science and still think you are mixing 2 unrelated issues to make your case sound better... Classic atheist method of mentioning irrelevant things like witchcraft etc. to make atheist argument sound all positive and forward thinking and try and make religion look backwards. Lack of evidence has never stopped scientists come up with all sorts of beliefs and defend them rigorously... Additionally, depends on what you term evidence. Countless prophets have been 'sent' over millennia telling us about God, mostly met by a hostile audience that they frequently managed to convince. Presumably, all these people weren't convinced simply because they were desperate to be proved wrong. You could call that a form of evidence. You could argue that you need something decisive, 'a miracle' or something. But there is plenty of historical record that such 'evidence' was presented. Sometimes, evidence simply wasn't enough. People simply wanted to stick with what they had and that was that. The reality is, despite the pro atheist camp trying to convince everyone that religion is for yesterday and atheism the new norm, the vast majority of people are either religious or 'open' to the possibility. https://en.m.wikiped...hics_of_atheism You can argue that they are wrong simply because you have not been offered direct evidence. But there is also the question of whether you are genuinely open to the possibility, or programmed/conditioned to reject anything at the first mention of God. That's the power of current media and educational practices. Zuber

[slindborg]

So a zuber. As far as you are concerned, what is the difference between atheists and agnostics? (And not a wiki or dictionary definition)

[Phear]

 

 

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]Lack of evidence has never stopped scientists come up with all sorts of beliefs and defend them rigorously...[/color]

 

Classic refuge of the religious. Scientist believe theories to be incorrect until proven otherwise, until then they remain just that, theories. It is the wider public who adopt theories as beliefs and facts.

 

Most good scientists are driven to question everything.

 

For my part I feel that belief without question (in anything) is unhealthy, and that includes believing there is not a God.