939 replies to this topic

[siztenboots]

about time we had a good old stoning

[ghand]

We seem to be missing my point, It's writen in the Koran, I have read the text, you must be put to death for various things, not only put to death but tortured first, fingers and toes cut off then eventually your head. So you either follow the Koran and are a Muslim or you don't and your not, it's simple Or are you just a half Muslim if you only follow half of it Oh and to say it only applies in Muslim country's is awsome A woman needs four female witnesses to live if she is raped otherwise she is put to death and that happens every day. Not the bloke who did it he's absolutely fine, she gets killed for encouraging the man !!!!!!! You couldn't write it !!!!! Oh hang on someone did

Well when your top man marries a six year old and has sex with her you can get away with most stuff. But actually in the defence of Islam they say he only consummated the marriage when she was nine, oh so that's ok

[ghand]

about time we had a good old stoning

Hey Hang on its likely to be me.

[Zuber]

From what I have been told... You don't just read the Koran and apply it without any context. Some things are clear, others need context. So you look at the situation in which/for which the verse(s) were revealed. What prophetic sayings there are regarding the issue, how these rulings were applied and why etc. Reality of how they were applied in 'the old days' seemed to be much more nuanced than appears to be the case in these scare stories. Based on relatively few instances of it being carried out, stories of merciful application etc. The whole four witness thing does seem strange. As I understand it, there is still a judge involved that would make a ruling based on the evidence. He would have to find the witnesses credible etc. Back whenever, there were no forensics or whatever. But I don't see why they can't be applied today. Unfortunately, there does seem to be some confusion when it comes to application of the principles vs doing exactly as it was then. At the other 'extreme' there are people willing to abandon the principles to be 'accepted'. We don't have as many top analytical scholars as we once did. More literal following, to avoid risk of getting it wrong. Shame, hopefully it will improve again.

[techieboy]

Shame, hopefully it will improve again.

Seems unlikely whilst there's such a reliance on poisonous oil money from Saudi and their fundamentalist Wahhabi interpretation/outlook.

[ghand]

From what I have been told... You don't just read the Koran and apply it without any context. Some things are clear, others need context. So you look at the situation in which/for which the verse(s) were revealed. What prophetic sayings there are regarding the issue, how these rulings were applied and why etc. Reality of how they were applied in 'the old days' seemed to be much more nuanced than appears to be the case in these scare stories. Based on relatively few instances of it being carried out, stories of merciful application etc. The whole four witness thing does seem strange. As I understand it, there is still a judge involved that would make a ruling based on the evidence. He would have to find the witnesses credible etc. Back whenever, there were no forensics or whatever. But I don't see why they can't be applied today. Unfortunately, there does seem to be some confusion when it comes to application of the principles vs doing exactly as it was then. At the other 'extreme' there are people willing to abandon the principles to be 'accepted'. We don't have as many top analytical scholars as we once did. More literal following, to avoid risk of getting it wrong. Shame, hopefully it will improve again.

It's a bit late for all the folk put to death in its name today as we speak. I think your confused your profit tells you exactly what to do no ifs or context or maybe , straight forward words that must be obeyed. So let me see if I've got this correct Your not going to kill off gay men. Your not happy with the four witnesses for a rape victim You wouldn't kill a rape victim Your not happy with marrying a six year old I take it I will maybe find a few more soon, are you sure your a Muslim .

Edited by ghand, 27 February 2015 - 04:43 PM.

[Zuber]

You sure you have actually studied this stuff :-) Trick is to look at what people in the past actually did. Quite different to some of what you read about know.

Edited by Zuber, 27 February 2015 - 05:26 PM.

[ghand]

You sure you have actually studied this stuff :-) Trick is to look at what people in the past actually did. Quite different to some of what you read about know.

Studied no but read a lot of the verses and the actual commands given that is or supposed to be your law and is the law that is being used by millions of Muslims and what is being taught in mosques throughout the world. You seem to be wanting to dilute what the writing actually says sort of pick and choose bits that are ok and say other bits are just from the old times of wars many years ago or other excuses. I have listened to your scholars in debates saying it as it is. I just don't see how you can cherry pick what you want. A lot of it is just evil in my view. A large proportion like your self may be "normal" but they are irrelevant they just sit at home or work or drive a VX around in this country or other western country's while the true evil rules other country's and tries to take over others by stealth or Terrorism or just good old war.

[ghand]

On a lighter note, you have to pray facing that bingo hall right and to turn you backside to Mecca is a sin ok. But the earth is round so at some point on it, .......!!!!

[casino]

Oooh..can hardly get a (good) word in edgeways. Sprouts a lot of reaction doesn't it..Religion & God etc. I don't know where to start...who rolled away the stone? Was that Cockley Rebel? Steve Harley ? What time are crucifixion? I need to re watch Life of Brian. Think you're right Gordon...you can make it up as you go along look at what's going on in the Middle East all in the name of errr Mohammid or God. Yeah the thing is we were all given free will to do good or bad. So there's always the temptation to go the easy way and make up the rules to suit you. Pretty good of God eh? Same thing with belief. Well that's enough from me. For now anyway.

[ghand]

Oooh..can hardly get a (good) word in edgeways. Sprouts a lot of reaction doesn't it..Religion & God etc. I don't know where to start...who rolled away the stone? Was that Cockley Rebel? Steve Harley ? What time are crucifixion? I need to re watch Life of Brian. Think you're right Gordon...you can make it up as you go along look at what's going on in the Middle East all in the name of errr Mohammid or God. Yeah the thing is we were all given free will to do good or bad. So there's always the temptation to go the easy way and make up the rules to suit you. Pretty good of God eh? Same thing with belief. Well that's enough from me. For now anyway.

You didn't answer my question so that's cheating, it wasn't Cockney Rebel

[Baron Von Scubadaddy]

Life of Brian is how I have taught my 3 children about "religion"  I will leave all of them to make up their minds 

They also haven't been christened or baptised because it's a choice I would like them to make.

 

I've been married twice and both times in a registry office 

I couldn't go to a church and say all that stuff that means nothing to me just so I could have 

a nice setting for the photos and some old pedo ringing some bells 

I'm a god farther to 2 children and the whole thing about standing there in front of decent folk

who actually believe this stuff upsets me.

Because I respect what they believe but I don't and find it all very disturbing 

 

If we could ALL just get on be nice to each other 

lend money with no interest and stop war.

 

Everything may be just a little better 

Edited by Baron Von Scubadaddy, 27 February 2015 - 10:38 PM.

[slindborg]

Indeedy, we don't some books to tell us to just be decent human beings....

[KurtVerbose]

Indeedy, we don't some books to tell us to just be decent human beings....

 

My thoughts exactly. You shouldn't have to refer to the Koran to decide if it's right or wrong to burn someone to death.

[slindborg]

Misread that something chronic

[Zuber]

Just been watching a YouTube video (Islamic...). Intended audience is Muslim, but thought you might find it interesting in light of the current IS 'kill them all' agenda...

 

 

If you don't fincy 80 mins of it (why not ), maybe worth 10-15 mins worth from around 25 mins.

 

Not as exciting or headline grabbing but what can you do...

[oblomov]

If you read the Koran you realise it's just the Old Testament, that's been heavily messed about with in many places by translators with an agenda.

[Zuber]

If you read the Koran you realise it's just the Old Testament, that's been heavily messed about with in many places by translators with an agenda.

Not read the old testament But given that Islam claims to be a follow on of the same message/faith with course corrections. I would expect there to be a great deal in common. Just thought it worth posting something from someone with a more in-depth understanding, given the current troubles. See lots of claims that Islam is a religion evil blah blah, based on a very shallow analysis (or an agenda of course).

Edited by Zuber, 23 July 2015 - 08:01 PM.

[ghand]

If you read the Koran you realise it's just the Old Testament, that's been heavily messed about with in many places by translators with an agenda.

Not read the old testament But given that Islam claims to be a follow on of the same message/faith with course corrections. I would expect there to be a great deal in common. Just thought it worth posting something from someone with a more in-depth understanding, given the current troubles. See lots of claims that Islam is a religion evil blah blah, based on a very shallow analysis (or an agenda of course).

Ok if it's not evil nip over to some full on Muslim country or parts of this country and tell them all your packing it all in and leaving the faith to become a Gedi night oh and good luck you may just need to be a Gedi knight to get away alive And don't for god sake tell them your gay, unless you can fly from high buildings . .

Edited by ghand, 23 July 2015 - 09:28 PM.

[ghand]

Zuber, just watched your video and I can honestly say it's the most mixed up faith on the planet by the sound of things. Millions believe one bit millions believe other bits. Also all sorts of different translations are going on. One top man says one thing one says another. This bit is wrong this bit is ok. What a mess when you all cant understand the one book. My book is much more easy to understand, have a read. Gods don't exist and if they do we are still better off without them , the end. .

Edited by ghand, 23 July 2015 - 10:10 PM.