939 replies to this topic

[Steve.i.am]

You need to research the content and then make your own mind up with an open mind rather than already having decided what the conclusion is...

Have you applied this approach to: The bible, old & new testaments, The Torah, The Koran, The Granth Sahib, The book of mormon, The texts of scientology, The watchtower publications... etc etc You should apply this to all these in order to fully research and open mindedly conclude which is describes a real deity before you decide first your one is the right one. Assume you did all that then.

[Zuber]

 

 

Spotted this on FB... made me giggle
 

By that logic you could claim just about anything ever published could be fictional. Hence it doesn't actually mean anything. You need to research the content and then make your own mind up with an open mind rather than already having decided what the conclusion is...

You can research the content for ever but you will never know if one grain of it is true so you just have to believe it is and hope you haven't wasted your life following some made up religion designed for control and power over the masses at the time I suppose.


I do hope a God turns up for all the religious folk when they croak having spent a life time worshiping one.

I still think he's a bastard for sending all us average normal guys to burn in hell just because we don't pray to him

.

 

 

There seem to be a great many intellient people out there that have looked into it with an open mind and come to a different conclusion. So not quite so clear cut...

 

If you want clear cut how about this.

 

If you are right, then you could argue people like myself have wasted a great deal of time etc. But then there is no point to anything anyway apparently, just a bunch of accidents, so who cares. A few random nuerons fire every now and then making you not want to die, o few others make you want to go on a Hoon. But ultimately, does it even matter if the human race survives, not really

 

On the other hand, if those in my camp are right...

 

As to the average normal guy point. Can't give you a good answer to that one directly. I suggest you pray for an answer to the All Mighty (with a genuine open mind and heart) and you never know

 

I do sometimes wonder if it might be a bit like the Oracle in the Matrix where Neo is told he is not 'The One'. Maybe we are given the information we need to make the journey rather than been told what we want to know.

[ghand]

Ha ha my praying days are long since over and with good cause. Any way he is just an egotistical conceited tosser who wants us to worship him, well I hate folk like that The random nuerons that fire and take us on the Hoon are to enjoy now before they run out and reappear at the pearly gates in your case or the fires of Hell in my case, Least I won't be cold and I will have all my mates with me

[Zuber]

 

You need to research the content and then make your own mind up with an open mind rather than already having decided what the conclusion is...

Have you applied this approach to:

The bible, old & new testaments,
The Torah,
The Koran,
The Granth Sahib,
The book of mormon,
The texts of scientology,
The watchtower publications...

etc etc

You should apply this to all these in order to fully research and open mindedly conclude which is describes a real deity before you decide first your one is the right one.

Assume you did all that then.

 

 

Wouldn't claim to be anywhere near 'academic' or 'scholarly' enough to have got through that lot.

 

I've obviously started from a biased stance, as would the vast majoraty of people.

 

I'd say I've got 'a little' insight into broad Jewish, Christian Hindu and Sikh teachings along with Science. Not ever really looked at Buddism other than what you catch on popular media etc. I did read a little on Scientology, but doubt it was a balanced view of it.

 

Scientology

Simply felt 'invented'.

 

Hinduism

Seems quite complex in terms of it has many strands. But I struggle to understand how people in this day and age would beleive it as it is in it's current state (of course others might say the same to me...) Too many migical characters with heads of animals that happen to originate from that part of the world etc. The origins of it many thousands of years ago may have been real. But to me, it's a bit like the old Greek Gods etc. great stories, but fiction.

Seems to be having a revival at the moment (in India). Which I don't get, given increased education. I can understand the interest in the want to preserve the culture and history etc. but I find the actual belief being taken seriously very strange.

 

Sikhism

Seems a bit of a mix, but essentially a localised phenomenon that I think of as 'tribal' or 'cultural' based in the Punjab region.

 

Judaism

Not really got a problem with it. Essentially, in Islam we believe the prophet (messiah) that Jews are waiting for has been and gone. Jews are still waiting for him.
 

Christianity

The whole trinity thing doesn't make sense to me. Now if you go back to the early days of Christianity, there were both monothisitc and trinitarian strands. The Trinitarian one won out. From my (Islamic) perspective, the monothisitc one was correct and was in line with Christs original teachings. that is to say christ was a human being and a Prophet. Obviously, most christians today would disagree, but it was I understand it, a widly held view amonst may early christians at the time. I know at least some Christians are open to that possible interpretation today and often it makes more sense to them and leads to further investigation of Islam.

 

Islam

So my bias... Essentially we see it as a follow on from Judaism, to monothistic Christianity and then to Islam. Apart from anything elses, a correction of path as were to the Trinitarian path taken by Christianity over several hundred years. As a general point, we dn't go with the earth is 5000 years old or that god created the earth in 6 days (in the litteral sense) and then needed to rest. But then I suspect that's true for many jews and Christians.

 

Athiesm

I've considered it (but with an open mind? who knows...) and it would be the most plausable (to me) of the above after Islam to me given the level of brain washing we get in school on TV etc. I'd say when pondering on such things, maybe erred between belief and agnostic rather than Atheist. Just got that feeling there is more to it than a bunch of accidents happening out of nothing, for no reason, without explanation, you know... I can understand Agnostic, struggle with Athiest.

 

Buddism

Not really looked at. Should look at it a bit more, but it would be more from an educational perspective to be honest rather than 'seeking the truth'.

 

Anyway, apologies if I have offended anyone with the above. Just thinking out loud really.

Edited by Zuber, 19 May 2014 - 03:51 PM.

[techieboy]

Islam Essentially we see it as a follow on from Judaism, to monothistic Christianity and then to Islam. Apart from anything elses, a correction of path as were to the Trinitarian path taken by Christianity over several hundred years.

But it's not possible that Islam has now been superseded in the last 1500 years and that maybe David Icke really was the prophet he claimed to be and that "God" had decided that he'd got all of the preceding faiths wrong and was having another attempt at getting it right?

[Zuber]

 

Islam Essentially we see it as a follow on from Judaism, to monothistic Christianity and then to Islam. Apart from anything elses, a correction of path as were to the Trinitarian path taken by Christianity over several hundred years.

But it's not possible that Islam has now been superseded in the last 1500 years and that maybe David Icke really was the prophet he claimed to be and that "God" had decided that he'd got all of the preceding faiths wrong and was having another attempt at getting it right?

 

 

Well, it depends on if you think the original teachings of Islam have still been preserved well enough for you to use them as a basis for assessing any new incumbants.

 

One key teaching is there will be no new prophets and plenty of pretenders

 

And there have been plenty of pretenders... In addition, given the no new prophets clause, plenty of persons trying to claim various other roles etc.  

[techieboy]

One key teaching is there will be no new prophets and plenty of pretenders

Convenient, that.

[Zuber]

Well there has to be a last one at some point right ?

 

In addition, given the no new prophets clause, plenty of persons trying to claim various other roles etc.

 

An interesting one that is often brought up is Jesus. As we also agree to his existance (but as a prophet) and even his second coming (yes, not within usual physics realm. It is intended to be miraculous...). So the question gets asked, but you said there would't be any more. The key word here is 'NEW'.

 

I guess you could argue 'civilisation' was now at a point where information could be spread much more effectively and so the method of communications was adapted accordingly.

[techieboy]

So Jesus or Abraham or whoever could get rebooted today and would become the newest old prophet and rewrite everything all over again?

[Zuber]

So Jesus or Abraham or whoever could get rebooted today and would become the newest old prophet and rewrite everything all over again?

 

Not quite. Jesus specifically gets a mention.

 

Now if someone wanted to make the claim, then there would be the question of making a suitably spectaculour entrance, performing the appropriate miracles etc. Tough one to pull off without being the real deal...

 

You are kind of right though. There are various persons that have tried playing with words to get round the clause and claim stewardship. some have managed to get a bit of traction unfortunately and hoodwinked a few (from my perspective). But overall, the clause has worked well.

Edited by Zuber, 19 May 2014 - 04:26 PM.

[oblomov]

 

You need to research the content and then make your own mind up with an open mind rather than already having decided what the conclusion is...

Have you applied this approach to: The bible, old & new testaments, The Torah, The Koran, The Granth Sahib, The book of mormon, The texts of scientology, The watchtower publications... etc etc You should apply this to all these in order to fully research and open mindedly conclude which is describes a real deity before you decide first your one is the right one. Assume you did all that then.

 

Nah, those are all basically a complete waste of time, what you need to research is this:

http://www.swamij.co...ukya-karika.htm

which, if you have the ability to understand it correctly, defines our phenomenal experience of the world, and with it consciousness.  The reasoning cannot be faulted, however an awareness of the difference between reasoning and logic is required for understanding, and that is not easily acquired without some training.

[ghand]

OMG

[RabnaKS]

I think for a non believer, Gordon understated his comment; unless he didn't realise what it spelt?;-) I looked & thought I had dyslexia. I'd rather carry on in life the way I am & save some time.�

[Steve.i.am]

Nah, those are all basically a complete waste of time,

I totally agree.  

what you need to research is this: http://www.swamij.co...ukya-karika.htm

'kin ell. LOL

[ghand]

I think for a non believer, Gordon understated his comment; unless he didn't realise what it spelt?;-) I looked & thought I had dyslexia. I'd rather carry on in life the way I am & save some time.�

No OMG was what sprang to mind glancing at that lot and it's topical How about WTF !

[RabnaKS]

I think for a non believer, Gordon understated his comment; unless he didn't realise what it spelt?;-) I looked & thought I had dyslexia. I'd rather carry on in life the way I am & save some time.�

No OMG was what sprang to mind glancing at that lot and it's topical How about WTF !

Now I understand :-D

[ghand]

That Southport lot weren't very nice. You wont go near them again. And I cant blame you if you had lamped  that character.  Least they didnt try to covert you.   As for human understanding of all things earthly and physical, Im sure advances will continue but they will never be able to match  God's knowledge. Course we can never reason this out as you're about to drop dead in a years time and I dont plan on being around for another 100,000 years.    ps whats your take on that Ukip bod getting suspended for suggesting God has sent the recent floods to punish the government?     

Just a quick revisit to say how the Southport God squad guy who asked God to take my life within the next twelve month has failed miserably like all the other requests to God Last time I checked I was very much alive and his twelve months are up, guess God was on his day off and forgot to read his messages Thank God for that

[casino]

Ha.

 

Was wondering if this thread would come back to life. 

I voted for God's existance in the poll, so come and get me, all you non believers, lol. 

 

Seriously, I think I was in the thick of this or a thread similar a few years back. 

 

So,,,,,who wants some preaching to? who wants converting? 

 

[Zuber]

Was this before or after your broken toe link Gordon ? Looks like it came close. Must have been my prayers for your salvation that saved you... Now you just need to see the light.

Edited by Zuber, 26 February 2015 - 10:07 AM.

[ghand]

Was this before or after your broken toe link Gordon ? Looks like it came close. Must have been my prayers for your salvation that saved you... Now you just need to see the light.

Ha ha ha and I was thinking it must have been the devil saved me for future use as he full up with my kind at the moment. Now Zuber I know you won't mention the horns How Godly was it of that preacher guy to pray for a perfect stranger to die, just because I said I didn't believe praying had ever worked. What a bastard