939 replies to this topic

[Mangham54]

But isn't the whole big bang theory based on a scientific analysis that suggests that is what happened. But because no-one ever actually saw the big bang happen surely it is highly probable conjecture. So science doesn't prove the big bang happened, but merely it is the only logical scientific conclusion, if you are to not ackowledge that some superbeing (a god) caused the creation of the universe in the first place.

[Seb.F]

In so many ways.

 

Think of it this way - religion doesn't really go anywhere. It has and always will be based on belief and faith, first and foremost.

Science, while it hasn't necessarily changed in its ways, it's methods have, drastically.

 

When the main religions started sprouting up, science was in its infancy. We didn't know what we didn't know, so to speak. But as science evolves, we discover new methods and practises to prove things with. If you had asked someone in the 8th century to prove how electricity worked or how diseases infected us, they wouldn't have a clue. But now, as our technology has evolved, we know these things.

 

It's not a matter of "if" we will understand fully where we/the universe came from, it's a matter of when.

[Mangham54]

In so many ways.   Think of it this way - religion doesn't really go anywhere. It has and always will be based on belief and faith, first and foremost. Science, while it hasn't necessarily changed in its ways, it's methods have, drastically.   When the main religions started sprouting up, science was in its infancy. We didn't know what we didn't know, so to speak. But as science evolves, we discover new methods and practises to prove things with. If you had asked someone in the 8th century to prove how electricity worked or how diseases infected us, they wouldn't have a clue. But now, as our technology has evolved, we know these things.   It's not a matter of "if" we will understand fully where we/the universe came from, it's a matter of when.

Again though, that is a belief. There is no empirical evidence to prove that we ever will. Every year we get x% closer, but ultimately we may never actually know. I actually don't think I want a definitive answer. I suspect what we will figure out very few of us will expect, let alone have ever hoped for.

Edited by Mangham54, 19 March 2014 - 10:03 PM.

[oblomov]

 

 

It's not a matter of "if" we will understand fully where we/the universe came from, it's a matter of when.

The belief in God is metaphysical, ie.based (allegedly) on abstract reasoning or mere theory.  There is no scientific evidence to support your statement, it's simply your personal belief and therefore a metaphysical statement which carries the same value as a personal belief in God.

 

[Bobby]

Science can only ever explain the rules of the game not why we play it.

 

It's all well and good working out how things work but if you ever start questioning why things work you have no choice but to go down a philosophical route. And that's exactly the reason religion, faith, belief, etc exists.

 

Maybe all religion is a lie, or maybe you're just being told what you need to hear (that scene from the matrix with Neo breaking the vase springs to mind )? When you start thinking about fate, free will and determinism, no logical construct can help you deal with those questions. So I don't believe we can ever scientifically prove the purpose of our existence, but that's just my belief .

[Seb.F]

So I don't believe we can ever scientifically prove the purpose of our existence, but that's just my belief .

 

I entirely agree.

 

But, my question would be, why do we have to have a purpose?

[Bobby]

We don't have to.

 

But I'm sure the thought has crossed most peoples minds. The point where you start questioning that the universe feels like an awfully complicated setup for an existence that revolves only around the fundamental acts of eating, sleeping and reproducing. Surely that's a recipe for human civilization to descend into hedonism, yet we don't? Why have we even developed the capability of introspection? It's not useful in the grand scheme of things.

 

I'm not saying faith/religion gives a clear cut answer to those questions, but it gives a different perspective to view your own existence from, a perspective that some find useful and others don't.

 

If you find yourself content in the knowledge that we have no real purpose and our existence is futile, then I agree, religion is completely unnecessary. But the moment you start questioning otherwise, you can't escape the concept of faith. 

[siztenboots]

the answer is 190.1 light years away , HD 140283 , aka the Methuselah star and entropy

[oblomov]

So I don't believe we can ever scientifically prove the purpose of our existence, but that's just my belief .

That belief is based upon the erroneous assumption that our existence has a purpose in the first place.

 

[slindborg]

 

So I don't believe we can ever scientifically prove the purpose of our existence, but that's just my belief .

That belief is based upon the erroneous assumption that our existence has a purpose in the first place.

 

 

 

 

'Our' purpose, like all viruses/diseases is to replicate and continue. Anything else that 'we' do is merely a bonus.

[oblomov]

 

'Our' purpose, like all viruses/diseases is to replicate and continue. Anything else that 'we' do is merely a bonus.

I agree, 'we' are (may be) a disease or virus, it's just a matter of sophistication and level of awareness.   As for 'purpose', that still remains an erroneous human assumption/belief, which makes the argument of  'purpose' a rhetorical device.

Edited by oblomov, 21 March 2014 - 12:17 AM.

[casino]

My word. This thread is still going??!! 

 

So no scientific proof of God. No reasoned argument for God. No sightings. Tons of other gods. No need for a God. Mockery of anything religious. Distain for the bible.

Lack of miracles to bring friends back from the brink of passing away. Lots of pain, death, suffering in the world. Wars caused by so called religion. Many dreams never coming true. 

 

But yet I still believe in God.

 

Pretty bloody minded? No.

Belief in God, (as this is what this thread is about) needs to be on another level than mere mortal earthly confines. It has to be a belief based on ..belief despite all the things mentioned above. Or else its just words.

 

And as for all the suffering mentioned above? 

This is Earth. It was never meant to be perfect. If it were it would be called Heaven. 

 

Get used to it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mbes2]

[ghand]

[quote name="casino" post="1675106" timestamp="1395493447"]

My word. This thread is still going??!! 
 
So no scientific proof of God. No reasoned argument for God. No sightings. Tons of other gods. No need for a God. Mockery of anything religious. Distain for the bible.
Lack of miracles to bring friends back from the brink of passing away. Lots of pain, death, suffering in the world. Wars caused by so called religion. Many dreams never coming true. 
 
But yet I still believe in God.
 
Pretty bloody minded? No.
Belief in God, (as this is what this thread is about) needs to be on another level than mere mortal earthly confines. It has to be a belief based on ..belief despite all the things mentioned above. Or else its just words.
 
And as for all the suffering mentioned above? 
This is Earth. It was never meant to be perfect. If it were it would be called Heaven. 
 
Get used to it.







Hi Casino you back

Still going but I think we have just about covered it a few times over now. God hasn't posted yet.

And I am still a big non believer oh and I hope the bastard who preyed for me to die had no signal to God at the time

We are all plodding on through life, some are happy and have a cushy life while some go through hell on earth, here right now and don't need to die to go to hell but that's gods will I am told and it's just tough sh*t if your one of the unlucky ones or are close to one of the unlucky ones.

For some I have known and know at this moment the old saying " life's a bitch then you die " is very true and God can do nothing about it unfortunately.


.
 
 
 
 
 
 

Edited by ghand, 22 March 2014 - 05:39 PM.

[Zuber]

Blimey, you guys not bored of taking the mick yet :-) Us believer types have been around forever you know. Since God created the universe... Anyway, I do wonder sometimes if we are told what's needed rather than everything. Kind of like The Matrix (first film down hill after that), where the Oracle tell him he isn't the one, because that's what's needed... and technically he isn't yet.

[mbes2]

As long as everyone feels happy that is what counts... 

 

 

 

[ghand]

Just a bit of fun  image.jpg   144.19KB   6 downloads

[RabnaKS]

M62 before Jcn31 in a field contains a modern type of "mobile" advertising sign, (really) an abandoned artic trailer which reads 'Gods dead'! Someone confirming something?

[Steve.i.am]

Us believer types have been around forever you know. Since God created the universe...

 

Our best understanding is that the universe as we know it is approx 13 and a half billion years old. Human beings (as a specie) have been around for about 200,000 years. So 0.00001 % of the universe age.

 

If you're a christian, then the belief is that God revealed himself about only 2000 years ago.

 

So I don't understand your statement at all, sorry.

[Zuber]

 

Us believer types have been around forever you know. Since God created the universe...

 

Our best understanding is that the universe as we know it is approx 13 and a half billion years old. Human beings (as a specie) have been around for about 200,000 years. So 0.00001 % of the universe age.

 

If you're a christian, then the belief is that God revealed himself about only 2000 years ago.

 

So I don't understand your statement at all, sorry.

 

 

Not a Christian, so can't speak on behalf of the Pope/Archbishop etc...

 

But my understanding is that many Christians are happy accepting that Earth is older than 5000 years or whatever the number is.

 

As a Muslim, we don't subscribe to the Jesus is God/God's Son thing. We believe he was a prophet of God. i.e. a human being like other prophets before/after him. Complete with his own miracles etc.

 

This was also a widely held belief amongst may early Christians as well, till things got nasty between opposing camps... It's also considered a perfectly viable viewpoint by many Christians today as I understand it (and completely opposed by others). My old religious Studies teacher at school (Christian) was open to it as I recall.

 

So working on that basis, God to me is way beyond 2000 years old etc.

We are talking the creator of the universe here. One whose power and might is beyond comprehension. So probably a bit presumptuous for us to assume he hasn't been doing other things beyond just dealing with us believers on this rock...

 

For example, God also created Angels. These have been around way before we turned up and they too are believers and so worship God.

According to the Koran (translation): "Hast thou not seen how to God bow all who are in the heavens and all who are in the earth, the sun and the moon, the stars and the mountains, the trees and the beasts, and many of mankind?"

 

We are just part of the picture, not the whole picture...