47 replies to this topic

[alexb]

The good looking picture below is from the procharger.com website, the ugly looking table some quick calculations I did

 

 

Not sure how accurate that picture actually is, it's marketing after all, but there is probably some truth to it. So you can gain something by lowering the temperature in the engine bay. Precious little space for a fan however.

 

The temperature increase by compression is just physics, little you can do about it. SC efficiency is fixed by the SC you use. You may be able to decrease the temperature in the engine bay a bit. The big gain is the cooling of the charge, making the laminovas more efficient for example. Many way of doing that, it's just a matter of finding some economic way.

 

I'm really curious about the other ways you have in mind.

[Captain Vimes]

 

Ive also had this idea with a spare rad fan bolted to my sprint engine cover.

 

 

 

(image found on google)

 

 

Have you tried it? Did it make any difference?

 

IMHO fans are only going to be of use in traffic and lowish speeds and a hindrance above 40mph. There was a post ages ago with a Exige and 2 massive fans strapped to the intercooler. Chris Randle gave some stats but basically no electric fan big enough to still fit in a car is going to give as much volume as moving along at 40/50 mph

 

This is the concern but I'm not sure how much airflow comes up through the engine bay as it is. I'm not sure there's that much flow on a vx. I may need to buy a new tool to measure airflow (something like this - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WeatherFlow-iPhone-iPod-iPad-Android-Smartphone-Wind-Meter-Anemometer-/181570095865?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item2a466bcaf9) 

 

The exige has quite different dynamics especially with the roof scoop feeding the intercooler so I'm not sure how good a comparison it is? 

 

[Captain Vimes]

 

....

 

I'm really curious about the other ways you have in mind.

 

I think the biggest issue with SC VX's is that the standard rad, that's blocked by the CC rad, isn't efficient enough to cool both the water AND the oil so the engine bay gets heat soaked. The oil temperature shoots up which in turn pulls the water temperature up, which makes the engine hotter and so the cycle goes on. It's OK when ambient temps are low (under 25c) but struggles over that. On the turbo, Vauxhall saw fit to add an extra NACA duct and an extra engine lid vent when running 200bhp even without the rad blocked so it's not surprising the SC struggles a little.

 

So the aim is - give the water cooling system an easier time by cooling the oil using an air/oil cooler and getting more of the heat out of the engine bay area generally.

 

The list I have (in order of simplest first) is:

• [color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;font-size:13.63636302948px;]Block vents and seal gaps around radiator to improve efficiency of water & CC rad[/color]
• [color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;font-size:13.63636302948px;]Add SPAL fan to engine cover (subject to testing air flow speed)[/color]
• [color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;font-size:13.63636302948px;]Fit a thermostatically controlled air/oil cooler in the ear (a small fan on the back of the rad would be nice[/color][color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;font-size:13.63636302948px;]). Not sure whether I'd disconnect the current cooler or use both. This is the one I think will make the biggest difference for the reasons mentioned above.[/color]
• [color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;font-size:13.63636302948px;]If disconnecting the standard oil cooler, try and use this to cool the gearbox oil (not sure if this is possible with the 2.2 gearbox - does it have an oil in/out?)[/color]

Some of this has already been proven effective by Cnrandall on his race Europa: http://www.vx220.org...rbo-ears/page-2

 

[Kieran McC]

I run a oil cooler on my gear box , We went for a manual switch just use a oil temprature gauge to watch the temprature.The thermostaticaly controled ones are not to accurant so I was told.

Edited by kieranmcc, 27 October 2014 - 07:44 PM.

[mbes2]

I will give this idea a fitting trial run tomorrow. .. sucking I guess would be best

[Bargi]

where's the diagrams Winstar did with air flow?

Should give an idea what it's like.

[mbes2]

This is whats inside the right engine air intake pod on the mgf, sensor kicks in when in traffic 

 

[Ormes]

This is whats inside the right engine air intake pod on the mgf, sensor kicks in when in traffic 

 

How big is it?

[mbes2]

This is whats inside the right engine air intake pod on the mgf, sensor kicks in when in traffic 

  How big is it?

I can just about see it but looks half the size of the vx rad fan

[alexb]

 

 

....

 

I'm really curious about the other ways you have in mind.

 

I think the biggest issue with SC VX's is that the standard rad, that's blocked by the CC rad, isn't efficient enough to cool both the water AND the oil so the engine bay gets heat soaked. The oil temperature shoots up which in turn pulls the water temperature up, which makes the engine hotter and so the cycle goes on. It's OK when ambient temps are low (under 25c) but struggles over that. On the turbo, Vauxhall saw fit to add an extra NACA duct and an extra engine lid vent when running 200bhp even without the rad blocked so it's not surprising the SC struggles a little.

 

So the aim is - give the water cooling system an easier time by cooling the oil using an air/oil cooler and getting more of the heat out of the engine bay area generally.

 

The list I have (in order of simplest first) is:

• [color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;font-size:13.63636302948px;]Block vents and seal gaps around radiator to improve efficiency of water & CC rad[/color]
• [color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;font-size:13.63636302948px;]Add SPAL fan to engine cover (subject to testing air flow speed)[/color]
• [color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;font-size:13.63636302948px;]Fit a thermostatically controlled air/oil cooler in the ear (a small fan on the back of the rad would be nice[/color][color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;font-size:13.63636302948px;]). Not sure whether I'd disconnect the current cooler or use both. This is the one I think will make the biggest difference for the reasons mentioned above.[/color]
• [color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;font-size:13.63636302948px;]If disconnecting the standard oil cooler, try and use this to cool the gearbox oil (not sure if this is possible with the 2.2 gearbox - does it have an oil in/out?)[/color]

Some of this has already been proven effective by Cnrandall on his race Europa: http://www.vx220.org...rbo-ears/page-2

 

 

 

Very sensible approach. And a lot of info in that thread. Improving the flow through the front rads makes a lot of sense. With the CC rad, you have to remove the plastic side guards which guide the air through the OEM rad and if you leave it that way, the flow is not very effective anymore. And adding that small spoiler in front of the rad exit seems to make a difference.

 

TBH, the small boy in me had hoped for something a little higher up the Buck Roger scale   Heat pipes sucking the heat from the manifold or Einstein refrigerators using the heat from the exhaust side to cool the air intake side ... too bad these things are a little hard to implement on the 5 pound budget.

 

BTW, another source of heat in the engine bay: the exhaust. So maybe wrapping it and some more Nimbus or such around it, just as like in the Cnrandall thread.

 

 

[MartinS]

I've always wondered why such a big rad is specified for the sc charge cooler. The water in the catch tank re never gets beyond luke warm and yet the rad for it blocks the airflow for the normal rad. Why couldn't one half that size be used?

Martin S

 

[siztenboots]

its more efficient to zone off areas in the engine bay , rather than try to cool everything. waste hot air , just dump it out.

 

[mbes2]

fan location questions...

 

[VXT Tim]

As the water ingress kit was a Vauxhall after thought, how much effect do you think that has in keeping hot air from escaping cleanly?

[mbes2]

As the water ingress kit was a Vauxhall after thought, how much effect do you think that has in keeping hot air from escaping cleanly?

 

Loads, Ive always been in two minds when I re fitted it to the new sprint lid... 

 

Still might remove it, looks SO much better without

[siztenboots]

 

As the water ingress kit was a Vauxhall after thought, how much effect do you think that has in keeping hot air from escaping cleanly?

 

Loads, Ive always been in two minds when I re fitted it to the new sprint lid... 

 

Still might remove it, looks SO much better without

 

 

yes, but coil packs are expensive to keep replacing

[mbes2]

 

 

As the water ingress kit was a Vauxhall after thought, how much effect do you think that has in keeping hot air from escaping cleanly?

 

Loads, Ive always been in two minds when I re fitted it to the new sprint lid... 

 

Still might remove it, looks SO much better without

 

 

yes, but coil packs are expensive to keep replacing

 

 

See..........two minds........ 

 

So far ive had no problems with intake temps or heat on track but not had a full on hot summer track day this yet with all the oil leak problems

[VXT Tim]

Run a bit of sealant along the edges of the cover

[VXT Tim]

I actually have always thought that this was a good idea and would allow me to dispose of the ingress kit.

Please excuse the highly detailed CAD drawing.
Some clever people on here, surely they could knock this up out of carbon.

[mbes2]

This fan idea.... 

 

Found this ... which I think explains it well for fan to be used to remove this heat while less airflow.

 

basically what happens with heat soak is that when you drive your car hard for example, and then are forced to shut down for any reason such as traffic, there is a lot of stored heat energy in the engine bay that was being passed into the air, but since you were forced to shut down, your cooling has been reduced a lot because there is no longer that air to help cool. Therefore your engine gets hotter then when it was at before. that is basic heatsoak.