137 replies to this topic

[Goldfinger]

Thanks everyone for your replies

 

Battery looks  new ish and on test at rest is about 11 volts and when the car is idling just below 12v  The car turns and fires no problem. All electrics apart from the pedal work perfectly 

 

I have not checked to see that the wires were shorted to earth or battery many thanks both for the information, I will go back and test. 

 

One thing I would like to know is the tool that is used to remove the terminals from the connectors I really would like to remove and test and replace the TB connectors terminal the Throttle Sensor block and all of the terminals from the ECU connectors. Can you recommend the tool for this, I understand that the terminals can be removed but how is this done (assuming I have the right tool)

 

The ECU was programmed by the guys who did the makeover with the Registration and VIN number for the car which was on the original but broken ECU and they provided me with new transponders and an ignition barrel receiver which worked a treat. Other than cleaning the ECU connectors all I have done is re-install the ECU and ensured that the connectors fit nicely and that the ECU is grounded correctly. I then started the car and still had the throttle issue, I have not re-flashed the ECU as I don;t have anything to do this with. My assumption was that the ECU had the faults removed as this was the conversation that I had with the Bluehawk guys they said that they would test the unit and repair any faults. I have removed fuse 8 and waited for about 30 mins before starting the car and retrying the throttle so that the ECU is reset.

 

One thing that I have not said previously is that when I picked the car up it was clear that the car had been left in the rain that day or the previous evening as the seat on the drivers side was wet when I opened the door and later when I got home I noticed that the carpets where wet also so I put them in the airing cupboard to dry but did not think anything of it until I have read a couple of the posts. As noted by the ECU repair specialists they said that the ECU had significant water damage to it, which I took to read the pins on the ECU connector had some corrosion/water damage on them. Whilst I have soaked the ECU connectors with contact solution and left them to dry again the reason why I want to check them out is to rule out any corrosion on the ECU plugs.

 

In addition the front and rear light clusters also had a great deal of condensation in them and these whilst the car has been in the garage have dried out and now look fantastic, but it is true to say that the car prior to pick up was not left in the dry...

 

The thing that continues to trouble me is that on the first occasion I looked at the car the day after it broke down on the way hone I unplugged the TB and Pedal Sensor removed fuse 8 and left it for half an hour and it started and throttle response was back, I turned off the ignition and since then I have had no throttle. Although I have removed the throttle pedal and replaced with a spare and the ECU connectors and the TB connectors and have changed the TB. I have read on a number of other threads not Vauxhall that the TPS might need to be re-calibrated is this correct, judging by the amount of components I have no changed I would  not be surprised if there is no something fundamental and stupid that I am overlooking 

 

I am pleased to tell you that I have removed both of the headlamp clusters today and cleaned and replaced the headlamp bulbs, which all work really nicely, so it does prove that some things on the car work and some of my mechanical skills still work. The next things whilst playing with the electrics, will be to remove the seats and have the bolsters repaired which will set the interior off even though it continues to frustrate every day.........................

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

When idling the battery voltage should be around 14volts And ideally more than 12 volts with car off

Edited by CHILL Gone DUTCH, 30 November 2014 - 10:02 PM.

[4cTech]

You can get universal terminal tools , search terminal tools on eBay look like 50p with prongs on . Healthy battery is 12.6 when fully charged , Think you really need a code reader that gives you fault code , description , and graphing to get to the bottom of this .

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

Going by what you have said You need to get checked your alternator and battery And also see if you have something drawing on the car battery

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

Healthy battery will be above 12 volts and 12.6 volts if 100% When idling the battery should be reading above 14 volts but not above 14.7 volts When cranking the voltage shouldn't drop below 10 volts

[TheHood]

I'll try my terminal tools on my spare loom and report back what works best tomorrow.

[Bargi]

So the car starts just you have no throttle? If so what happens if you push on the TB butterfly valve while it's running? If the TPS is working and ECU getting signal it should cut the engine. Does the car just sit idling or do the engine revs blip every second or so?

[Goldfinger]

Thanks very much for tthe updates

 

I will re- check the battery voltage this evening and give you a more accurate reading

 

When the car starts the revs intially are highish abut 1500 rpm they then gradually decrease and settle at about 1000 rpm there are no blips and the car runs smoothly from there.

 

The throttle when depresssed has no response, I will try the TB butterfly and report, back I have been unwilling to give it a prod as it does have quite a bit of resistance.

 

Many thanks for the info on the terminal tool

 

 

 

[slindborg]

This is an NA yes? (I keep forgetting )

 

if its an N/A I cant see how this company would have opened up the ECU to see whats happening inside, I say this because I opened one up once and it was destructive in that the connectors needed cutting off.

 

It really is sounding like a dead ECU

 

[smiley]

When the car starts the revs intially are highish abut 1500 rpm they then gradually decrease and settle at about 1000 rpm there are no blips and the car runs smoothly from there.

The throttle when depresssed has no response, I will try the TB butterfly and report, back I have been unwilling to give it a prod as it does have quite a bit of resistance.

 

 

This sounds very identical to my throttle problem back in 2009.

I had to get it towed to opel due to lack of knowledge, and they screwed me with a new ecu, but the bill also mentioned a new earth wire installed.

(I am now running that so called dead ecu with odbtuner on it, so it's fine). 

 

May i suggest as a simple test to wire the ecu earth wire minus also directly to the battery earth minus to rule that out?

Edited by smiley, 01 December 2014 - 10:52 AM.

[doctorfrag]

yep easy to check earth, I just used a set of jump leads from earth on battery to chassis and the engine would start!

[slindborg]

see, this is the problem... if the earth is "that" bad, how the hell is it starting

[Pidgeon]

I've had two cars with 'dead throttle' problem and both were traced to issues in the wiring between the pedal and the ECU.  The solution I adopted to isolate the issue was to obtain another pedal plug (they're generic in the VX drive by wire cars) and lengthening the wiring from the plug so that it would reach the ECU (I used two lengths of T+ E (so any domestic cabling)).

 

Having identified the six wires that enter the ECU, I made a temp joint between the two (just stuck a needle through the two IIRC) and tried the pedal.  It worked, so I rejoined the wires further down the loom (before the loom of doom connectors) and tried again - carry on until fault found.

 

The wizardy of the drive by wire throttle is too good to fault find by continuity testing.  One of the two rheostats in the pedal starts at zero V and rises with throttle opening, while the other starts at 6 (?) and reduces.  The ECU knows what the correlation should be and if one is out it gives no output.

[Goldfinger]

All thanks for the contribution, I hope that you are enjoying the next installment of the soap opera which is this thread !!!

 

Tonight checked the voltage on the battery gave me and next time before I post I will make sure I am accurate so that you good folks dont waste time on me !

 

At rest no ignition 11.7v

At ignition 11.5v

At tickover 14.5

 

So I am thinking that the battery is OK ? and this by the way is after a few starts from cold (without charging) to see if I have fixed the pedal issue.

 

TB the butterflyt does not like being pushed, but when I took my life into my own hands gave it a good prod and the car went to stall released and the revs picked up again.

 

Was not able to talk to the ECU chap today as I have little coverage in the office, despite the fact that all of the connectors in the ECU look staright and new. I have today put the paypal transaction in dispute so that I can either find out the work that has been done and be satisfied that there has been an internal and reprogramme of the ECU or that the contacts have just been cleaned and the charges that have therefore resulted are either appropriate or not and we go from there.

 

I was getting to the point of the home wiring kit and I know the wires that are involved as we have conitnuity tested so my idea was to run from the throttle pedal to the ECU and from the ECU to the TB so that in essence all of the wires could be accounted for. I will purchase sufficent lengths of cable and try.

 

 

Many thanks

 

[Bargi]

TB the butterflyt does not like being pushed, but when I took my life into my own hands gave it a good prod and the car went to stall released and the revs picked up again.

 

hmm... when we were working on Martins any prod of the TB butterfly cut the motor immediately.

It's like a fail safe, if the ECU sees the TB change but the pedal doesn't = something wrong

 

hopefully it's something with the wiring and you sort it soon

[4cTech]

11.7 is not good , is it disconnected ? Try charging overnight you want 12.2-12.6 v . Not saying it's the problem which I think your idea of running it's own harness to pedal and throttle is sound as long as you follow the diagram

[slindborg]

11.7 is not good , is it disconnected ? Try charging overnight you want 12.2-12.6 v . Not saying it's the problem which I think your idea of running it's own harness to pedal and throttle is sound as long as you follow the diagram

IMHO 11.7 isn't bad, given accuracy of test kit these days etc. The run it voltage sounds good, and as its not been driven to charge I'd not be at all concerned by the voltages. And a drop to 5-6v on crank is entirely possible but not many folks see that as they have slow ass meters

[4cTech]

True , it could get that low if stood around without a good run to keep it toppled up .

[Goldfinger]

I am probably not going to be able to get to fettle this week.

 

But just a s a check I believe the wiring is from the Throttle Pedal

 

Pin 1 Yellow Cable to Pin 53 of the ECU

Pin 2 Green Cable to Pin 21

Pin 3 Blue Cable to Pin 49

Pin 4 Black Cable to Pin 64

Pin 5 White Cable to Pin 31

Pin 6 Brown Cable to Pin 61

 

I presume that there is no other interface so to speak from the throttle pin connectors to the ECU, the ECU itself is providing the 2 5v Circuits and the remaining outputs are the Signal Ground and the Pedal Potentiometer outputs.

 

Fingers crossed as soon as I have some appropriate cable I will let you know.

 

I will also probably route new cable across from the ECU to the TB at the same time but independently as I dont want to have issues over the results, that is where I will need new connectors etc.

[Pidgeon]

Dug out some more results from my tests, this is from Opcom, hope it makes sense

 

                                      Idle         WOT

App sensor 1               .98            3.73

sensor 2                      .49             1.86

Calculated                   0                100  throttle position

TP sensor 1                  .71           4.27

sensor 2                       4.31          .75

calc TP                        .24             5.00