51 replies to this topic

[JoshR]

mbes2 - thanks for the picture comparison, interesting the larger disc thickness although I dont know how worn the old disc is - but it should never make that much difference! Which ally bells & discs did you go for & what size? Im running a supercharged conversion, although not 300hp its still a fair increase over the standard 2.2 output so I need to consider an upgrade.

 

Tony H - already read that thread, but thanks for the link!

 

siztenboots - another good option, but I think i'll be staying with OEM front calipers for now - they seem to be up to the job & im sure are a little lighter than both those options! Are you running either set-up?

 

steffen - where can I get them for that price, assuming they are with the ally bells? If I do go for the 308mm set-up on the front, I think i'll be sticking with the same pad type all-round.

 

 

Does anyone know what the braking bias is front to rear as standard? And do the Turbo cars or the VXR come with different disc sizes (diameter or thickness?)

 

Cheers,

 

Josh..

 

[Pidgeon]

do the Turbo cars or the VXR come with different disc sizes (diameter or thickness?)

 

 

 

All exactly the same

 

I haven't had my ABS turned off in 11 years

[siztenboots]

siztenboots - another good option, but I think i'll be staying with OEM front calipers for now - they seem to be up to the job & im sure are a little lighter than both those options! Are you running either set-up?

 

guy who did it lost about 1.5kg on each front hub , 3kg each on the rear

 

http://www.vx220.org...em-on-there-vx/  

[JoshR]

 

siztenboots - another good option, but I think i'll be staying with OEM front calipers for now - they seem to be up to the job & im sure are a little lighter than both those options! Are you running either set-up?

 

guy who did it lost about 1.5kg on each front hub , 3kg each on the rear

 

http://www.vx220.org...em-on-there-vx/
 

 

 

Good option, but still a bit too much faff for me at the moment (trying to renovate my first house, so I can move in ASAP).

 

Right, brakes. Complete change of plan; decided to go for YellowStuff's all-round for winter. I used them many years ago on my EK9 and they were great (good cold bite when compared to other race type pads, no squeal, no brake fade on track and excellent wear rates) that was on a car that was also around 150kg's heavier than the VX, but about 30hp down on power, so im hoping i'll have similar results when used on the VX.

 

I've managed to find the min disc thickness for what discs were on the car when I bought her, so i'll get these measured up as I think/ hope there will be enough life in the current discs to see me through the winter months! Next year depending on how the EBC pads perform i'll either stick with them or replace and change the discs at the same time too. Im in talks with 'Steffen' on here, so i'll either go with his discs or the EliseParts AP discs (304mm front and 290mm rear) setup. The 304's are actually lighter than the 295's due to having less vanes according to Ian - so that's another plus, better braking, more weight saving (un-sprung as-well). Steffen has had some previous first hand, slightly worrying, experience with the AP's - so i'll research this a bit more before I commit to anything.

 

When I strip the front brakes off to change the pads, im going to check the condition of the piston seals etc on the AP's and possibly go for a full piston refresh kit if required. I'll also be upgrading to braided lines (if they're not already fitted) and of course doing a full system bleed. 

 

For those interested, here are the weights of the discs I was/ am looking at;

 

AP 2 piece discs/ bells complete (304mm) - 4.6kgs

Alcon Discs with fixed nitron bells (308mm) - 5.3kgs note these only come in 4 stud fitment, so you will need different bells to suit. 

Elise parts own brand discs/ bells (295mm) - 5.5kgs

AP 2 piece discs/ bells complete (295mm) - 5.5kgs

'Steffen' alloy bells with Zimmermann discs (288mm) - 5.7kgs

'Steffen' alloy bells with [color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]Zimmermann discs (308mm) - 6.3kgs[/color]

 

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]Cheers,[/color]

 

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]Josh..[/color]

[Ivor]

Josh. Really interested to know where you end up as the next thing I want to do is a (sensible) brake upgrade.

[manus]

Freno carbon including bell, 2.2kg if I remember correct

[JoshR]

Josh. Really interested to know where you end up as the next thing I want to do is a (sensible) brake upgrade.

 

Will do buddy!

 

Freno carbon including bell, 2.2kg if I remember correct

 

Just had a look on their website, very niiiice. But at £1.7k just for pads and discs, ouch! I'd be really interested to hear feedback from anyone who has used them, what they're like from cold & actually what the wear is like as the weight saving certainly seems massive compared to OEM!

 

Freno H-Carb carbon brakes (280mm) - 2.2kgs?

AP 2 piece discs/ bells complete (304mm) - 4.6kgs

Alcon Discs with fixed nitron bells (308mm) - 5.3kgs note these only come in 4 stud fitment, so you will need different bells to suit. 

Elise parts own brand discs/ bells (295mm) - 5.5kgs

AP 2 piece discs/ bells complete (295mm) - 5.5kgs

'Steffen' alloy bells with Zimmermann discs (288mm) - 5.7kgs

'Steffen' alloy bells with Zimmermann discs (308mm) - 6.3kgs

 

Josh..

Edited by JoshR, 16 December 2014 - 06:01 PM.

[Ivor]

Going with 308 discs on the front with AP 5000 calipers. Front calipers to the rear. Steffen handbrake caliper.

[manus]

Josh. Really interested to know where you end up as the next thing I want to do is a (sensible) brake upgrade.

Will do buddy!

Freno carbon including bell, 2.2kg if I remember correct

Just had a look on their website, very niiiice. But at £1.7k just for pads and discs, ouch! I'd be really interested to hear feedback from anyone who has used them, what they're like from cold & actually what the wear is like as the weight saving certainly seems massive compared to OEM! Freno H-Carb carbon brakes (280mm) - 2.2kgs? AP 2 piece discs/ bells complete (304mm) - 4.6kgs Alcon Discs with fixed nitron bells (308mm) - 5.3kgs note these only come in 4 stud fitment, so you will need different bells to suit. Elise parts own brand discs/ bells (295mm) - 5.5kgs AP 2 piece discs/ bells complete (295mm) - 5.5kgs 'Steffen' alloy bells with Zimmermann discs (288mm) - 5.7kgs 'Steffen' alloy bells with Zimmermann discs (308mm) - 6.3kgs Josh..

Freno's are 2,08kg. That is including floating bells. I will have feedback once the Spexige is back on the road. Wear supposed to be almost nothing, therefor justifying the long term cost.

Edited by manus, 16 December 2014 - 07:06 PM.

[JoshR]

 

 

Josh. Really interested to know where you end up as the next thing I want to do is a (sensible) brake upgrade.  

Will do buddy!

Freno carbon including bell, 2.2kg if I remember correct  

Just had a look on their website, very niiiice. But at £1.7k just for pads and discs, ouch! I'd be really interested to hear feedback from anyone who has used them, what they're like from cold & actually what the wear is like as the weight saving certainly seems massive compared to OEM! Freno H-Carb carbon brakes (280mm) - 2.2kgs? AP 2 piece discs/ bells complete (304mm) - 4.6kgs Alcon Discs with fixed nitron bells (308mm) - 5.3kgs note these only come in 4 stud fitment, so you will need different bells to suit. Elise parts own brand discs/ bells (295mm) - 5.5kgs AP 2 piece discs/ bells complete (295mm) - 5.5kgs 'Steffen' alloy bells with Zimmermann discs (288mm) - 5.7kgs 'Steffen' alloy bells with Zimmermann discs (308mm) - 6.3kgs Josh..

 

Freno's are 2,08kg. That is including floating bells. I will have feedback once the Spexige is back on the road. Wear supposed to be almost nothing, therefor justifying the long term cost.

 

 

Thats some serious unsprung rotating weight loss then, should certainly feel the difference in steering. As for the wear, certainly enticing if they last that long. 

 

Josh..

[siztenboots]

seems VX220 is supported , http://www.frenocarb.../Price List.pdf FRONT (Option B ) 2 x 24mm Freno Carbon Discs (Rotors) and Bells 4 x Freno Carbon Pads - For use on Lotus OE Calipers (not supplied) £ 1723.00 + VAT.

[manus]

seems VX220 is supported , http://www.frenocarb.../Price List.pdf FRONT (Option B ) 2 x 24mm Freno Carbon Discs (Rotors) and Bells 4 x Freno Carbon Pads - For use on Lotus OE Calipers (not supplied) £ 1723.00 + VAT.

Thats right, have the 5x110 bells waiting at home :-) elise-shop.com ordered the VX220/Lotus Europa bells for me

Edited by manus, 17 December 2014 - 02:49 PM.

[siztenboots]

I'm trying to decide if fitting carbon fronts only is a daft idea

[manus]

I'm trying to decide if fitting carbon fronts only is a daft idea

Think it will depend largely on the piston diameters of front an rear calipers and if there still is some balance between them. You can put the front 2-pot calipers at the back. Worth a try.

Edited by manus, 17 December 2014 - 04:15 PM.

[techieboy]

I'm trying to decide if fitting carbon fronts only is a daft idea

 

But, but, they're smaller than standard discs and therefore can't possibly work as we all know huge discs are much better and the very first thing that needs fitting on purchase of car. Sh!t, they're not even shiny, so they must be really crap.  

[siztenboots]

if it means never having to clean wheels again, then I don't care how much they are , I want them

[SteveA]

I'm trying to decide if fitting carbon fronts only is a daft idea

 

I would imagine it's a very bad idea. My experience of carbon brakes is that they are gash when cold and incredible when hot. That means huge rear bias when cold (and we know what happens then don't we ) and almost none when hot.

 

To the OP - chuck a set of CL6 pads on the car first, they are incredible and you will get almost no improvement over and above them regardless of what else you do (other than for endurance racing). If you want to lose weight fine but I would go with some light seat before I went with uber expensive disks. It's hardly worth shedding a few kg's on a VX unless you are racing and do some intense weight loss program as per Cliffies car.

Edited by SteveA, 17 December 2014 - 05:11 PM.

[manus]

I'm trying to decide if fitting carbon fronts only is a daft idea

I would imagine it's a very bad idea. My experience of carbon brakes is that they are gash when cold and incredible when hot. That means huge rear bias when cold (and we know what happens then don't we ) and almost none when hot. To the OP - chuck a set of CL6 pads on the car first, they are incredible and you will get almost no improvement over and above them regardless of what else you do (other than for endurance racing). If you want to lose weight fine but I would go with some light seat before I went with uber expensive disks. It's hardly worth shedding a few kg's on a VX unless you are racing and do some intense weight loss program as per Cliffies car.

They supposed to have improved the cold capabilities. But you could have a point. Only having to clean your rear wheels makes no sense.. :-) Unsprung and rotational weight reduction makes a difference. Removing 15 kilos weight there you can compare to 100 or more of 'normal' weight savings. Had reserved the Freno's for the track car, but tempted to try them on the Europa soon. If they are as good as they say, could end up with 2 cars with those disks... Broke but happy.

Edited by manus, 17 December 2014 - 05:40 PM.

[turbotoaster]

on seloc look for papa smurf.

 

I run his 308mm discs and ali bells(tell him the PCD, a set of 4 costs less than a pair of fronts from alcon/ap

 

they are pagid discs machined and grooved and have been used in race use before(elise trophy and cup) and have performed well.

 

they weighed about the same as my old 282mm EP ali setup as a bonus

[Steffen]

Here something about the discs which we produce and why they are heavier than for example the AP discs.

 

The idea to make the discs by our selve comes when many friends with Lotus MK2 have had cracked their AP discs after only 1 or 2 trackdays during our LotusandLightCarChallenge(LLCC), instead of me with my discs where I go also 1 or 2 seasons befor I have to change them.

 

We checked the difference between my discs and the AP discs.

 

Seen from inside to outside:

The AP discs has 6mm steel, in the middle the 14mm air channel and than again 6mm steel.

My one have 10mm steel a 6mm air channel and than again 10mm.

 

This explains why the AP discs are lighter and because my one are not cracked so easy like the AP one,

but of course with less material they are lighter, but my one are much cheaper with only £455.-(including transport)