118 replies to this topic

[PaulCP]

Lol This thread reminds me of the old Seloc debates on S1 & S2 Elises 😄😄😄😄😄

[Wolfstone]

[Eliselee281275]

Mmmm very interesting and a great debate, to be honest I would lean towards a turbo, but having lotus in my blood it would take me a very very special car to tempt me out of my 111R and soon to be supercharged I will keep looking. Thanks for all the comments

Edited by Eliselee281275, 07 July 2015 - 05:30 PM.

[pete-r]

Saying one is better than the other is useless, you need to decide for yourself. What I think is fair to say though... Turbo. Belt driven Easier 300+Bhp potential Heavier lump Possibly newer/later More of an event when the boost comes in Probably better mpg on a cruise (on track im sure they both suck) Extra body bits, ears, spoiler, splitters Front speakers Likely central locking SC. Chain driven Asbo noise Shorter FD if I recall? Vfm to convert to 250bhp, expensive beyond that Conversions are more intrusive in terms of clams off, wiring etc Lighter Rarer More adjustment via dutch obd Feels like a bigger engine (noise aside) I'm not marking them as + or - you can do that yourself.

[Captain Vimes]

The only turbo cars I've owned gave me great pleasure in straight lines as the torque built up and shoved me down the road BUT I found it quite one-dimensional as I would wait until the car was straight before fully lighting the burners. The sc drives like a big NA and encourages you to drive it like a sports car - using the revs and playing with the balance mid corner on the throttle (especially in the wet). As has been stated a number of times - neither is better. They're different and it really depends what you want from a car.

[jonnyboy]

For me if you want ultimate performance it has to be SC. The best Turbo I've driven is the only standard unmapped one I have ever had in which was actually pretty good. IMO mapping accentuates the inherent issues the Turbo has with power delivery ie the old on/off is it /isnt it/ throw a six to start approach to throttle mapping and boost control. Interestingly having had a Europa recently these issues are totally resolved on this car so you can see why Lotus organised their own management for the engine. No VXT I've ever driven has inspired complete confidence in this area. If you just want to go fast in a straight line for cheap = turbo. If you like to drive the car on the limit you need more control. 

 

Stage 2 SC 2.2 is a well worn path. 4-2-1 and good exhaust adds a lot to this package. Harrop is another option but do these hit the buffers with intake temps at about 300? 

 

As I have said to the OP before the single most impressive modified Lotus based car I've ever driven was the Rotrex powered 111R I sold earlier this year. That had the Rotrex with forged internals/FMIC and Standalone ECU with variable slip TC. That had all the power of a Harrop type setup but crucially with torque more in line with a turbo. Its one of the most underrated setups for the S2 based cars IMO. Could be worth a look for the VX as intake temps might be easier to manage. 

[Bargi]

Having driven Dave Hardwicks Turbo with the standalone it would give any SC a run for its money on track or road. There's a lot of work gone into that car in hardware and mapping and it shows. I'm waiting for a certain Stage 4 Turbo driving God to come and tell his experience of a stage 2 SC last year

[Nev]

Having driven Dave Hardwicks Turbo with the standalone it would give any SC a run for its money on track or road. There's a lot of work gone into that car in hardware and mapping and it shows.

It's good to see a balanced retort The key to making the VXT's as drivable as a SC'ed or NA is an ECU change. Once this is done, drivability isn't a problem, the only problem is the cost unfortunately :o/ In retrospect I sorely wish I had splurged the cash on my own 3rd party ECU 3 years earlier than I did.

Edited by Nev, 08 July 2015 - 07:19 PM.

[jonnyboy]

I drove my Europa for the MOT today hadnt driven it for a while and again it totally backs up what you say about management. Its a total joy to drive. Could be the future for even stage 1 -2 cars. Well worth spending £1-2000 on thats how much of a difference it makes to the turbo engine. 

[stu8v]

Canems, competitively priced and excellent piece of kit.

 

http://www.canems.co.uk/

 

They do all-sorts of projects.

 

Definitely worth a look if your in the market, my mate runs this ECU in his Skyline RB25 engined Escort Cosworth.

.

[stu8v]

I drove my Europa for the MOT today hadnt driven it for a while and again it totally backs up what you say about management. Its a total joy to drive. Could be the future for even stage 1 -2 cars. Well worth spending £1-2000 on thats how much of a difference it makes to the turbo engine. 

 

It costs no-where near that amount to go aftermarket management.

[darronwall]

it does if you do it properly

[stu8v]

And that includes???

[Guy009]

Having driven Dave Hardwicks Turbo with the standalone it would give any SC a run for its money on track or road. There's a lot of work gone into that car in hardware and mapping and it shows. I'm waiting for a certain Stage 4 Turbo driving God to come and tell his experience of a stage 2 SC last year

 

I drove dave's car too (he's too trusting!) and was very surprised. Drove like the engine was NA almost, linear, and no matter how I tried I couldn't get the turbo to do the nasty 'hiccup' when you're on and off the power or part throttle, it could have been an m3 engine in the back.

 

But, with the big power maps on the standard ecu theres nothing like the surge of boost you get, cossie sapphire style, but, it also gives me the fear when to start the 'surge' process when out on the road, as there is a small lag waiting for the boost to build, then when you're in the map and on boost if you lift and cut the boost it can unsettle the car.

 

I imagine a SC doesn't do that so much?

 

And totally agree about the earlier comment about hammering an NA about - whilst I love the power of my turbo (290) i'm not sure I have quite as much fun on the country lanes as I did in my old lightning yellow, as you were flat out everywhere feeling like a hero, whereas in the turbo I feel like a sh*t driver that its waiting to stab.

[Tolksee]

 

As I have said to the OP before the single most impressive modified Lotus based car I've ever driven was the Rotrex powered 111R I sold earlier this year.

 

 

... And I'm really enjoying it!!  

 

Though being a 111R, you do have to be between 5.5k and 8.5k rpm to get the serious torque, as opposed to the lazy easy-access torque of a turbo. So it's more effort (and noise!) than a Tubby to get the most out of it. But then there is zero boost lag.....

 

Having had a Stage 2+ VXR220, I reckon a tubby Stage 2/3 with LSD, decent suspension and aftermarket ECU with TC would be the perfect everyday road weapon.

[jonnyboy]

I have a couple of tubbies in if I can get that 111R back Lee! 

[anz3001]

I'd like to see the two variants properly compared by a trio or so of properly good drivers. All the talk of drivability, whilst valid for us mere mortals, always has me wondering what the opinions of truly top drivers would be.

[dw1]

I own a stage 4 turbo, MMG mapping. I wanted it mapped to be as close to an N/A as possible so I was prepared to give up some torque for smoothness. When driving on a track with foot flat down you don't notice lumpy lag and the car feels smooth. I absolutely love my car. However it if was for pure driving track style then I would have to say SC every time, the delicacy you can get with that gives you so much more. For everyday driving and road, then the turbo is very good fun. I think for every day driving the SC whine might annoy me after a while but for every thing else about it the SC Is a much better tool in the concept of Elise based chassis.

Edited by dw1, 10 July 2015 - 10:08 PM.

[Rosssco]

Fit the standard airbox to virtually eliminate SC noise..

[MAXR]

Fit the standard airbox to virtually eliminate SC noise..

 

 

I will have to try that. Does anyone have a spare na airbox for me to buy to test? I have a large cone filter at the moment & if it doesn't lose too much power the mod may help me at the quieter circuits.

 

Is there a NA airbox mod thread? I can't find it...