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The Referendum - In Or Out


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#1781 Jetpilot

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Posted 02 April 2019 - 11:28 AM

or a public vote.

 

I am happy with a public vote, but the options should be "the" deal or no deal, nothing to do with remain, we have been there done that and personally i think we will get into a revolving door of referendums over being part of the EU for the next decade or so (see Scotland if you want a reference).

 

If we end up staying Farage will get another party going and just as before it will get loads of popularity and whichever party is in government will panic and offer a ref anyway, i cant see 17.4 million people give or take a few deaths, change of minds, perhaps even new voters are going to lie down and accept staying.

 

I am a little confused over the backstop, the Eu says they have amended so we can lawfully leave, our lawyers say their isnt, if the Eu are happy to have a lawful agreement, why cant we just agree that lawful amendment and the deal will get a majority?



#1782 coldel

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Posted 02 April 2019 - 11:44 AM

 

or a public vote.

 

I am happy with a public vote, but the options should be "the" deal or no deal, nothing to do with remain, we have been there done that and personally i think we will get into a revolving door of referendums over being part of the EU for the next decade or so (see Scotland if you want a reference).

 

If we end up staying Farage will get another party going and just as before it will get loads of popularity and whichever party is in government will panic and offer a ref anyway, i cant see 17.4 million people give or take a few deaths, change of minds, perhaps even new voters are going to lie down and accept staying.

 

I am a little confused over the backstop, the Eu says they have amended so we can lawfully leave, our lawyers say their isnt, if the Eu are happy to have a lawful agreement, why cant we just agree that lawful amendment and the deal will get a majority?

 

 

You mean the amends a few weeks back when the attorney general said they were no good? There is a nice document on the backstop here https://www.institut...eland-backstop 

 

In terms of a revote, I am pretty sure remain would win, its not much about the 17.4m that voted leave before, its about the 30% of the country who didn't vote a majority of whose profile strongly matches a remain voter. How many of those turn out this time around will decide it. 



#1783 Jetpilot

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Posted 02 April 2019 - 03:29 PM

Everyone thought remain would win originally ;)

 

So what happens if the country vote to leave again, will the politicians honour that result, will the remainers still be saying they want another referendum because some demographic forgot to vote, the campaigns were illegal etc, what if 30% of the country still dont vote, what if the result is even closer either way, it will be the same old same old, unfortunately some people just cant accept they were a minority (inc politicians) and if we go down that route it will all be played out all over again and if anyone thinks thats a good idea for this country just to stay in the Eu is equally narrow minded as us Brexiteers views.

 

What if remain won, you know it will be close run thing again, should the leavers then just accept that then? nN chance thats going to happen seeing as the remainers have been so vocal in their complaints.

 

Sorry dude, i know you are a remainer, but forgetting a bit of "possible" hardship over the next few years for the economy, imho having another vote will be far worse for the state of this country than whatever we may or may not face with Brexit.   



#1784 siztenboots

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Posted 02 April 2019 - 03:38 PM

bring back family fortunes , brexit edition

#1785 rabbidog

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Posted 02 April 2019 - 03:53 PM

I agree with jetpilot, any further public vote should be on May's deal vs no deal.
I am a remainer, i did not for one minute think the referendum vote would go the way it did, but it did.

Now we need to honour that outcome.

For me if we are going to leave it should be with NO deal not some half arsed deal.

Whatever happens i dont want Corbyn running this country.

#1786 Jetpilot

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Posted 02 April 2019 - 05:59 PM

Sorry Rabbidog, after that announcement the conservatives are f****d for a decade or more and pretty sure JC will be in next time round.

 

Also, welcome back Mr Farage in whatever guise.



#1787 jonnyboy

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Posted 02 April 2019 - 06:13 PM

Would anyone on here admit to voting for JC? I don't think he's got a hope in hell of getting into office. He's popular amongst grass roots labour activists and no other humans. His best result was only what Gordon Brown achieved. Needs flushing out with the rest of the political garbage come election time.

#1788 techieboy

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Posted 02 April 2019 - 06:19 PM

Properly farcical.

I voted Remain (and on balance still think that was the right decision) but have long accepted the result and am thoroughly uneasy with the thought of another referendum, especially as the question or the possible answers will be gerrymandered by Parliament to all but guarantee a remain bias/result. Whatever the result, one side or the other won't accept it being legitimate and it will only magnify the current divisions in the country. The "people" got us into this mess in the first place, why they're any more likely to fix the situation with another referendum, I don't know.

 

If we are to leave, it should be a "clean" Brexit. Any of the current clusterfcuk options currently being regurgitated by MP's and anything Corbyn is likely to push for just leave us effectively in the EU but in a worse position than we currently are.

 

Personally, I think, given the Tories are currently unelectable for a decade, May should go for an end run around everyone and revoke A50 and immediately call for a vote of confidence in her leadership or maybe another general election. Not like anybody else apart from the proper dingbat kippers or Farage's new nuggets are going to be electable running on a Brexit Round 2 ticket.

 

Hopefully, she'll find an internal Conservative Party method to kneecap any of the ERG morons, especially Rees-Mogg, Mark Francois, Nigel Evans, Peter Bone and that Kaczinsky(?) fella plus writes a bouncing cheque to those DUP extremists before she shuts the door behind her.



#1789 coldel

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Posted 02 April 2019 - 06:43 PM

Everyone thought remain would win originally ;)

 

So what happens if the country vote to leave again, will the politicians honour that result, will the remainers still be saying they want another referendum because some demographic forgot to vote, the campaigns were illegal etc, what if 30% of the country still dont vote, what if the result is even closer either way, it will be the same old same old, unfortunately some people just cant accept they were a minority (inc politicians) and if we go down that route it will all be played out all over again and if anyone thinks thats a good idea for this country just to stay in the Eu is equally narrow minded as us Brexiteers views.

 

What if remain won, you know it will be close run thing again, should the leavers then just accept that then? nN chance thats going to happen seeing as the remainers have been so vocal in their complaints.

 

Sorry dude, i know you are a remainer, but forgetting a bit of "possible" hardship over the next few years for the economy, imho having another vote will be far worse for the state of this country than whatever we may or may not face with Brexit.   

 

Many remainers, as in the general public, are not wanting another referendum in fact many want this done myself included, at no point did I say I am for another referendum. That said, I would bet every penny I own that had the result been reversed and Remain won 52% to 48% that Farage would have carried on regardless, called for another vote, Leavers would have been even more emboldened and demanding another vote - any idea that Leavers would have just accepted it and got on with it with UKIP disbanding etc. is ridiculous, yet that is thrown at some Remainers regardless. Would you have accepted it and thrown your support behind being in the EU?

 

The outcome, especially if its a No Deal, that its 'a bit of possible hardship' sorry dude either shows a complete lack of understanding of global economics and the challenges that would present, or are tactically underplaying the impact for the sake of supporting the argument. Sure there will be a demographic, probably one you are in, that will be fine, but the impact on the most vulnerable those in the bottom 20% is very real and dangerous from both a cost of living point of view and an employment point of view.  


Edited by coldel, 02 April 2019 - 06:46 PM.


#1790 hairy

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Posted 02 April 2019 - 07:08 PM

daily_picdump_3096_640_93.jpg



#1791 rabbidog

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Posted 02 April 2019 - 07:14 PM

Sorry Rabbidog, after that announcement the conservatives are f****d for a decade or more and pretty sure JC will be in next time round.

Also, welcome back Mr Farage in whatever guise.


I live in hope.

#1792 rabbidog

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Posted 02 April 2019 - 07:37 PM


Everyone thought remain would win originally ;)

So what happens if the country vote to leave again, will the politicians honour that result, will the remainers still be saying they want another referendum because some demographic forgot to vote, the campaigns were illegal etc, what if 30% of the country still dont vote, what if the result is even closer either way, it will be the same old same old, unfortunately some people just cant accept they were a minority (inc politicians) and if we go down that route it will all be played out all over again and if anyone thinks thats a good idea for this country just to stay in the Eu is equally narrow minded as us Brexiteers views.

What if remain won, you know it will be close run thing again, should the leavers then just accept that then? nN chance thats going to happen seeing as the remainers have been so vocal in their complaints.

Sorry dude, i know you are a remainer, but forgetting a bit of "possible" hardship over the next few years for the economy, imho having another vote will be far worse for the state of this country than whatever we may or may not face with Brexit.


The outcome, especially if its a No Deal, that its 'a bit of possible hardship' sorry dude either shows a complete lack of understanding of global economics and the challenges that would present, or are tactically underplaying the impact for the sake of supporting the argument. Sure there will be a demographic, probably one you are in, that will be fine, but the impact on the most vulnerable those in the bottom 20% is very real and dangerous from both a cost of living point of view and an employment point of view.

I agree with the 'a bit of possible hardship'.

I have a B in A-level economics and business studies so have a bit of understanding (from 20 odd years ago i must admit). There are many leading economists who believe NO deal is the best deal in the long term.

I am not stongly trying to argue no deal either, never have, but its better than the deal on the table.

You are right on something tho, i am not in the bottom 20%, i could have been, but I have worked f$ck!ng hard at school, then work, to get where I am and have never over stretched financially. Im only concerned with me, my friends and my family. The bottom 20% will just have to manage.

As you can tell i am not much of a socialist.

#1793 Jetpilot

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Posted 03 April 2019 - 03:39 PM

 

 

 but the impact on the most vulnerable those in the bottom 20% is very real and dangerous from both a cost of living point of view and an employment point of view.  

 

 

Of which the majority voted to leave.........so let them learn the hard way, why are you so concerned for them?

 

And to concur with Rabbidog again, there are plenty of economists for Brexit, i understand your education, but absolute predictions on what will actually happen are pie in the sky.



#1794 SteveA

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Posted 03 April 2019 - 04:02 PM

Of which the majority voted to leave.........so let them learn the hard way, why are you so concerned for them?

 

When they fall on hard times they will come and rob your house to feed their families. There will no police to catch them either.



#1795 Ormes

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Posted 03 April 2019 - 04:18 PM

Sorry Rabbidog, after that announcement the conservatives are f****d for a decade or more and pretty sure JC will be in next time round.

 

Also, welcome back Mr Farage in whatever guise.

 

 

Currently, I'd say that the UK is a Cat D.  Surely the answer is just to replace the front clam and the NS headlight?

 

Passing it on to Labour/Corbyn would be the equivalent of setting fire to it... be extreme don't you think?

 

;)



#1796 rabbidog

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Posted 03 April 2019 - 05:01 PM


Sorry Rabbidog, after that announcement the conservatives are f****d for a decade or more and pretty sure JC will be in next time round.

Also, welcome back Mr Farage in whatever guise.



Currently, I'd say that the UK is a Cat D. Surely the answer is just to replace the front clam and the NS headlight?

Passing it on to Labour/Corbyn would be the equivalent of setting fire to it... be extreme don't you think?

;)

Good analogy, when the fires out, no doubt the working class will be forced to house the poor.

#1797 christhegasman

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Posted 03 April 2019 - 05:10 PM


Sorry Rabbidog, after that announcement the conservatives are f****d for a decade or more and pretty sure JC will be in next time round.

Also, welcome back Mr Farage in whatever guise.


Currently, I'd say that the UK is a Cat D. Surely the answer is just to replace the front clam and the NS headlight?

Passing it on to Labour/Corbyn would be the equivalent of setting fire to it... be extreme don't you think?

;)
Good analogy, when the fires out, no doubt the working class will be forced to house the poor.
At least that’s one thing that won’t change then 😂




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