1815 replies to this topic

[Madmitch]

Freedom is a basic 'given' in any true democracy and something to be protected at any cost.  Any erosion of our rights and freedoms moves us toward a totalitarian dictatorship where ultimately we are told what to do by the centralised authority, either an individual or a power group.  In our system it is understood that our MPs are elected to represent us in Parliament and so they hold surgeries to find out what we want from them.  Changing sides does not in any way change their ability to do that effectively.  What it does change is their obligation to support their party on the major issues of the day.  Usually they all pull together when necessary, especially if the issue is an important one, and we get a result which is accepted by the majority in the house, there will always be some dissenters but by and large the system works.  I don't think we should feel in any way unhappy with an MP who votes against his party when he feels it important enough to do that.  I would much rather have an MP of integrity and honesty who will do that than one who always pulls his forelock and does what he is told.

 

And yes, I recognise that honesty and integrity are thin on the ground these days, I was just daydreaming for a moment...………………... 

[casino]

So Tusk and Co are still hoping we will see the error of our ways and embrace Europe once again..sighting the recent March and few million signatures begging to stop the exit process.

And at the same time introducing cars that can’t break the speed limit & are constantly monitored.

How blind can you get? No frigging idea why we’re walking away from his happy euro family.

[coldel]

Just to be clear, they can break the speed limit by pushing hard on the accelerator for a period of time before a warning from the car tells the driver they are over the limit. And the monitoring is not 24/7 the box is there in the case of an accident to understand what happened, if you were speeding and ignoring the warning messages then crash into someone then too right you should get pulled up on it if you are deemed to be driving in a reckless manner. The UK is going along with the speed limiters idea too and has already been agreed even if we are out of Europe we will adopt it. 

 

In other news over the last week being done by the European Parliament, largely ignored by sensationalist press:

 

Additional rights for consumers with regards to managing your household energy

http://www.europarl....icity-consumers

 

Better consumer rights when buying electrical goods on and offline

http://www.europarl....d-offline-video

 

Rules showing much bigger punishments for companies and parties that misuse your data 

http://www.europarl....to-be-penalised

 

So on and so forth. It's easy to jump on a headline bandwagon but they also do a lot to improve workers right, consumer rights, quality control etc. which hugely benefit your everyday person but do not grab the headlines.

[coldel]

How about our own government spending £12m of taxpayers money on a new york flat for a diplomat involved in US talks for a trade deal in the future https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47717397 obviously the money saved on police officers has gone to a much better cause.

[Dan r]

He'd better be bloody good!

Sent from my G8441 using Tapatalk

[Jetpilot]

Just to be clear, they can break the speed limit by pushing hard on the accelerator for a period of time before a warning from the car tells the driver they are over the limit. And the monitoring is not 24/7 the box is there in the case of an accident to understand what happened, if you were speeding and ignoring the warning messages then crash into someone then too right you should get pulled up on it if you are deemed to be driving in a reckless manner. The UK is going along with the speed limiters idea too and has already been agreed even if we are out of Europe we will adopt it. 

 

In other news over the last week being done by the European Parliament, largely ignored by sensationalist press:

 

Additional rights for consumers with regards to managing your household energy

http://www.europarl....icity-consumers

 

Better consumer rights when buying electrical goods on and offline

http://www.europarl....d-offline-video

 

Rules showing much bigger punishments for companies and parties that misuse your data 

http://www.europarl....to-be-penalised

 

So on and so forth. It's easy to jump on a headline bandwagon but they also do a lot to improve workers right, consumer rights, quality control etc. which hugely benefit your everyday person but do not grab the headlines.

 

I have no clue why anyone would think we couldnt implement our own policies, adopt them or otherwise if they are a good thing, we would be foolish not to, the issue is, having the choice.

 

The first i have heard about the speed limiting and it immediately springs to mind if you are correct, what about if you need to accelerate to avoid a collision/accident, or you pull out to overtake and misjudge halfway through, i dont advocate speeding as you know and if you take a risk we all know the consequences, but deliberately limiting the acceleration of a car is just dangerous for the above imho

[coldel]

As above mate you can break speed limits by just keeping the throttle in. I am pretty sure when it comes to it there will be an element of control of the car still. That said, the UK government has been relentlessly punishing the road user for years, we will soon see self driving cars, higher taxation, higher fuel taxation etc. to push people off the roads this really is the least of your worries.

 

For me the technology has to be a bit smarter than relying on GPS, how many times have I carried on past a slip road on an M road but my GPS thinks I have taken the slip road and am now sat on a road with a much lower speed limit, will my car automatically start slowing down to 30mph whilst sat there on an M road for instance.

Edited by coldel, 27 March 2019 - 04:59 PM.

[Jetpilot]

Simple answer then, a gps blocker!

[coldel]

I wouldnt be surprised if its easily dealt with in some way shape or form.

[C8RKH]

 

When you vote for an MP in elections you tick against their name where it also shows they represent a party.

 

 

 

Are the individual parties concerned within their rights to call for a by election when they gave up their seat?

 

 

 

I don't believe they are, however there is a process where the constituents can request a recall of the MP and providing they get a certain number of voters to agree (from my memory 1 in 10 is it) then that's the process to use.

[C8RKH]

Just to be clear, they can break the speed limit by pushing hard on the accelerator for a period of time before a warning from the car tells the driver they are over the limit. And the monitoring is not 24/7 the box is there in the case of an accident to understand what happened, if you were speeding and ignoring the warning messages then crash into someone then too right you should get pulled up on it if you are deemed to be driving in a reckless manner. The UK is going along with the speed limiters idea too and has already been agreed even if we are out of Europe we will adopt it. 

 

In other news over the last week being done by the European Parliament, largely ignored by sensationalist press:

 

Additional rights for consumers with regards to managing your household energy

http://www.europarl....icity-consumers

 

 

 

The "sensationalist press" probably ignored that first one on household energy as all 6 items are currently active in the UK so it's such old news it isn't news any more!

 

And don't get me started on the billions that have been wasted across Europe and the UK on smart metering systems that have delivered minimal savings and value, and actually pushed up energy bills in the EU. All thanks to your local friendly EU non-elected twerps!

 

Always two sides to everything if you look hard enough.

[LY_Scott]

There is no framework on day one for selling the shellfish into europe. Boats tied up and factories not open, lorries not transporting etc etc. That's just one industry. It's exactly the same for farming.

Well, that means we (the UK) get shellfish... I dont see the problem there

Seasonal goods/foods at sensible prices. Phackin out out

Nope, In In.

Ah sod it.

Aye, well if my mum had a cock she'd be my dad. Yes I'm sure over some length of time we could wean Brits off chicken from Poland and horsemeat from France onto what is grown or caught locally but it remains that a hard brexit in day one those boats would be tied up and by the time the populace was ready there would be no industry

[coldel]

 

Just to be clear, they can break the speed limit by pushing hard on the accelerator for a period of time before a warning from the car tells the driver they are over the limit. And the monitoring is not 24/7 the box is there in the case of an accident to understand what happened, if you were speeding and ignoring the warning messages then crash into someone then too right you should get pulled up on it if you are deemed to be driving in a reckless manner. The UK is going along with the speed limiters idea too and has already been agreed even if we are out of Europe we will adopt it. 

 

In other news over the last week being done by the European Parliament, largely ignored by sensationalist press:

 

Additional rights for consumers with regards to managing your household energy

http://www.europarl....icity-consumers

 

 

 

The "sensationalist press" probably ignored that first one on household energy as all 6 items are currently active in the UK so it's such old news it isn't news any more!

 

And don't get me started on the billions that have been wasted across Europe and the UK on smart metering systems that have delivered minimal savings and value, and actually pushed up energy bills in the EU. All thanks to your local friendly EU non-elected twerps!

 

Always two sides to everything if you look hard enough.

 

 

That was exactly my point, two sides to everything. The press generally portray EU legislation as time wasting money wasting efforts, when in fact there are many there that benefit all of us but the side that is always there is the negative stuff. If you look back to the week before last they were putting in legislation to help protect farmers etc. EU politicians are elected, we have European elections, its just that historically the UK never really bother and turnout is poor. 

 

Whether we like it or not, the world is globalising, blocs are being set up, deals in place, we cannot operate on our own we have to abide to many rules of trade whether we are in or out of a trading bloc. I can bet my last dollar if we try and negotiate something with the US they will be ten times worse in terms of being 'bullies' in setting up a deal, if you thought we had no control in the EU wait till the US dictates to us how we trade with them. 

[coldel]

Somewhat off topic but given the comments about the car speed limiters coming in some light-hearted fun

https://www.thedaily...0190328184072 

[JG]

https://www.newstate...umbling-britain

 

 

The public was not clamouring for a referendum on EU membership. Cameron called it for the narrow purpose of uniting his party and fending off Ukip. He offered an ill-informed electorate a binary choice on an extraordinarily complex issue of profound constitutional importance without even the safeguard of a 60 per cent threshold for approval.

It was one of the most foolish gambles ever taken by a British prime minister, and one that unleashed the charlatans, rogues and demagogues of the Leave campaign.

They proceeded to seduce voters with fake facts and bogus promises. They stoked fears, fuelled grievances and inflamed prejudices. They appealed to the lowest human impulses, and unlocked the ugliest features of the British character – xenophobia, jingoism, aggression, insularity, arrogance and a perverse, pig-headed pride in our own ignorance.

The insurgent Leave.EU camp of Nigel Farage and Arron Banks broke electoral laws, and had links with Donald Trump’s campaign advisers and the Russian ambassador. The official Vote Leave campaign, with Boris Johnson and Michael Gove as its figureheads, spread blatant lies – the £350m weekly NHS dividend, the 80 million Turks heading our way. Johnson shamelessly promised we could “have our cake and eat it”. Gove shamelessly trashed experts.

They and other leading Leavers offered a fantasy Brexit – all gain, no pain. The trade negotiations would be “the easiest in human history”, said Liam Fox. “The UK will retake her seat at the top tables of the world where the EU has replaced us,” said John Redwood. “Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the single market,” said Daniel Hannan. “EU politicians will be banging down the door for a trade deal,” said Johnson. “The day after we vote to leave we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want,” said Gove.

Worst of all, having defeated Cameron’s hapless Remain campaign, the luminaries of Leave turned out to have no plan whatever for implementing their fairy-tale Brexit.

 

[coldel]

It must have been a somewhat bizarre situation sitting in the EU and watching our Referendum process. How we allowed as above a 2% majority (when one third didnt vote) to effectively alter the course of history in this country. I started a thread on the zed forum back in 2016 and mentioned about there being no planning, no realisation of the complexities, how immigration was being thrown into the mix when it should never have been a consideration etc. and was shouted down quite vociferously (JP not included!) by some Leave voters there - it was clear that leavers on that thread were on the whole very aggressive to any comments that were negative about leaving (and with an undertone that I was not supporting Britain) but their responses were very much about kicking it into the long grass...which is probably the ultimate failing of the whole thing, that people wanted out, but did not believe the implications even when presented to them in black and white. 

 

Sure we can blame MPs and they have been a joke to be frank, but what was expected? That people who have spent their lives shouting down the ideals of the other side would suddenly find a consensus and vote it through as per Liam Fox's comment?

Edited by coldel, 29 March 2019 - 09:27 AM.

[smiley]

[Ivor]

It must have been a somewhat bizarre situation sitting in the EU and watching our Referendum process. How we allowed as above a 2% majority (when one third didnt vote) to effectively alter the course of history in this country. I started a thread on the zed forum back in 2016 and mentioned about there being no planning, no realisation of the complexities, how immigration was being thrown into the mix when it should never have been a consideration etc. and was shouted down quite vociferously (JP not included!) by some Leave voters there - it was clear that leavers on that thread were on the whole very aggressive to any comments that were negative about leaving (and with an undertone that I was not supporting Britain) but their responses were very much about kicking it into the long grass...which is probably the ultimate failing of the whole thing, that people wanted out, but did not believe the implications even when presented to them in black and white.

Sure we can blame MPs and they have been a joke to be frank, but what was expected? That people who have spent their lives shouting down the ideals of the other side would suddenly find a consensus and vote it through as per Liam Fox's comment?

Just about sums it up, if David Cameron had fought a a half decent remain campaign, instead of assuming he would walk to victory, we would not be having this discussion

[Ormes]

 

https://www.newstate...umbling-britain

 

 

The public was not clamouring for a referendum on EU membership. Cameron called it for the narrow purpose of uniting his party and fending off Ukip. He offered an ill-informed electorate a binary choice on an extraordinarily complex issue of profound constitutional importance without even the safeguard of a 60 per cent threshold for approval.

It was one of the most foolish gambles ever taken by a British prime minister, and one that unleashed the charlatans, rogues and demagogues of the Leave campaign.

They proceeded to seduce voters with fake facts and bogus promises. They stoked fears, fuelled grievances and inflamed prejudices. They appealed to the lowest human impulses, and unlocked the ugliest features of the British character – xenophobia, jingoism, aggression, insularity, arrogance and a perverse, pig-headed pride in our own ignorance.

The insurgent Leave.EU camp of Nigel Farage and Arron Banks broke electoral laws, and had links with Donald Trump’s campaign advisers and the Russian ambassador. The official Vote Leave campaign, with Boris Johnson and Michael Gove as its figureheads, spread blatant lies – the £350m weekly NHS dividend, the 80 million Turks heading our way. Johnson shamelessly promised we could “have our cake and eat it”. Gove shamelessly trashed experts.

They and other leading Leavers offered a fantasy Brexit – all gain, no pain. The trade negotiations would be “the easiest in human history”, said Liam Fox. “The UK will retake her seat at the top tables of the world where the EU has replaced us,” said John Redwood. “Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the single market,” said Daniel Hannan. “EU politicians will be banging down the door for a trade deal,” said Johnson. “The day after we vote to leave we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want,” said Gove.

Worst of all, having defeated Cameron’s hapless Remain campaign, the luminaries of Leave turned out to have no plan whatever for implementing their fairy-tale Brexit.

 

 

TIme and time again we come back to the same assumption that those who voted leave did so as they were mislead, or because they are a bunch of racists.  I voted out as I do not like the direction of travel of the EU.

 

All of this talk about uncertainty outside of the EU, and not one single person seems to be worried about what the EU may be like in say 10 years... which basket case nations will we dilute our wealth with next?, what wacky rules are going to be implemented next?, how slow and clumsy will the EU become given the fact that so many diverse nations need to vote for everything that gets passed?

 

I now have a strong and real fear that the dishonourable actions of the b@stards in Westminster over the last 2 years will kill brexit... wait for the f&king uproar.
 

[smiley]

I think that was the plan all along.