60 replies to this topic

[Exmantaa]

Impressive. A bit more revs and it would be perfect for track use.

(Should be a few pounds lighter than an SC-VX... )

 

How much rpm can you safely do with that 2.4 crank throw?

[oakmere]

Very good figures particularly from NHM who's rollers read low if anything. Probably 290bhp at CMS with the fixed bracket. Glad you didn't have to hide after this RR session 😂

[gertje]

Witch set up is this? And the software?

Edited by gertje, 17 February 2016 - 03:44 PM.

[smiley]

Witch set up is this? And the software?

 

2.4 inlet manifold and a 65mm throttlebody  

[gertje]

Why i have only 185hp? And 213 torqeu

Edited by gertje, 17 February 2016 - 03:52 PM.

[techieboy]

 

Witch set up is this? And the software?

 

2.4 inlet manifold and a 65mm throttlebody  

 

 

Well, it was about 10 years ago. Evolved just a little bit since then.

[tibby]

http://z22se.co.uk/t...0-project.2994/

[alexb]

Sounds like that bracket problem could be what the saab people all have as many of us cant get past 6900?

 

Martin S

ps Email sent Neil

 

 

 

Is that the bracket for the external trigger wheel? If so, I did some tests with a, home made, external trigger wheel on a rig using an electric motor to drive itl. Did that to have a look at the signal coming from the crank sensor. Idea was to emulate the 7:1 wheel using the Saab 60:2. Long story short, even at the 3,600 RPM my electric motor could generate, there's a lot of vibration introduced by any unbalance in the external trigger wheel. As it's mounted on the crank pulley and that pulley is designed as a harmonic damper, I got a bit worried about that. It also seems that the German tuner who sells these external trigger wheels balances it on the pulley, as you have to send in your pulley for them to mount it. Seems like a good idea to me. From a sensor signal perspective, there should not really be an issue. At higher RPM, the signal gets much stronger. Then again it's very easy to introduce a couple of degrees error if the bracket is not absolutely true (both in position and angle of the sensor with regards to the trigger wheel)

 

disclaimer: as usual I have no idea if this information has any practical value  

[rob999]

That's it's annual trip out then

I'll catch you in 2017 Neil

[vocky]

The engine started life as a Saab B207 2.0 turbo. It is now a 2.5 litre throttle bodied NA

 

It has been sleeved and rebored to 90mm, the crank was a brand new LE5 (2.4) item from the states, 90mm pistons were custom made by JE Pistons, the bottom end was zero balanced, oil pump has GM Racing gears, balancer shafts + chain + mechanical water pump deleted, cylinder head has been ported quite considerably and also port matched to the throttle bodies inlet manifold, Alfa 2.2 exhaust gasket, GM Racing +0.5mm valves, Supertech double valve springs, CatCams 286 camshafts - vernied to spec sheet, electric coolant pumps, 4-2-1 equal length exhaust manifold (one metre long), looped 2.5" exhaust system using a modified Piper backbox and not forgetting the Webcon throttle bodies

 

So not only does it have good power, it also sounds fantastic      

[oakmere]

Vocky Do you use the Supertech now rather than the GM racing valve springs? Very jealous of this engine. Good to see an NA engine that would give a stage 3 SC a run for its money especially when mated to the Alfa 6 speed box👍👍👍

[siztenboots]

yes, the gearbox has some really nice ratios

[TazN]

Is Neil still running the 6 speed Alfa? I loose track of what engine/box setup he has.

 

Some very nice results though, hopefully you will take the thing out and get it dirty!

[The Batman]

Yeah, miss match though it's not all Alfa

[vocky]

How much rpm can you safely do with that 2.4 crank throw?

safe limit is 7525 rpm

 

Do you use the Supertech now rather than the GM racing valve springs?  

 

 

The dbilas are stronger than standard and quite cheap (£140 or so), so they get used 90% of the time. The Supertech kits look identical to the GM Racing kits

[vocky]

Yeah, miss match though it's not all Alfa

 

6th gear is from a corsa vxr, otherwise it's all Alfa M32

[vocky]

 

Sounds like that bracket problem could be what the saab people all have as many of us cant get past 6900?

 

Is that the bracket for the external trigger wheel? If so, I did some tests with a, home made, external trigger wheel on a rig using an electric motor to drive itl. Did that to have a look at the signal coming from the crank sensor. Idea was to emulate the 7:1 wheel using the Saab 60:2. Long story short, even at the 3,600 RPM my electric motor could generate, there's a lot of vibration introduced by any unbalance in the external trigger wheel. As it's mounted on the crank pulley and that pulley is designed as a harmonic damper, I got a bit worried about that. It also seems that the German tuner who sells these external trigger wheels balances it on the pulley, as you have to send in your pulley for them to mount it. Seems like a good idea to me. From a sensor signal perspective, there should not really be an issue. At higher RPM, the signal gets much stronger. Then again it's very easy to introduce a couple of degrees error if the bracket is not absolutely true (both in position and angle of the sensor with regards to the trigger wheel)

 

disclaimer: as usual I have no idea if this information has any practical value  

 

 

The Webcon throttle bodies kit uses a totally different set up to the z22se, the crank sensor is at the bottom (6 'O' clock). Because I have a Denso alternator I had to make a new bracket to clear the drivebelt, this bracket has been vibratring and it eventually cracked causing severe vibration and a loss of crank signal at 6900 rpm. Once I have made a new bracket the engine will rev to the rev limiter 7650. Previously it has been fine to 7900rpm - with zero issues. I do however use a solid RK Sport alloy crank pulley.

 

The z22se external trigger wheels are at roughly 11 'O' clock and have a 10mm thick rock solid mount. It might be possible that the crank pulley is causing the issue, the only way to prove this would be to use a solid crank pulley and see if the issue is resolved.

 

Either way I will never touch a 2.0 Saab engine again, they have been nothing but hassle. The best option for the B207 is to convert it to a 2.2 with a z22se crank, Eagle steel rods and forged pistons. All of the 2.2 conversions have been fine.  

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

Either way I will never touch a 2.0 Saab engine again, they have been nothing but hassle. The best option for the B207 is to convert it to a 2.2 with a z22se crank, Eagle steel rods and forged pistons. All of the 2.2 conversions have been fine.   Yep I can confirm my 2.2 has been brilliant.

[Raptor]

 

 

Sounds like that bracket problem could be what the saab people all have as many of us cant get past 6900?

 

Is that the bracket for the external trigger wheel? If so, I did some tests with a, home made, external trigger wheel on a rig using an electric motor to drive itl. Did that to have a look at the signal coming from the crank sensor. Idea was to emulate the 7:1 wheel using the Saab 60:2. Long story short, even at the 3,600 RPM my electric motor could generate, there's a lot of vibration introduced by any unbalance in the external trigger wheel. As it's mounted on the crank pulley and that pulley is designed as a harmonic damper, I got a bit worried about that. It also seems that the German tuner who sells these external trigger wheels balances it on the pulley, as you have to send in your pulley for them to mount it. Seems like a good idea to me. From a sensor signal perspective, there should not really be an issue. At higher RPM, the signal gets much stronger. Then again it's very easy to introduce a couple of degrees error if the bracket is not absolutely true (both in position and angle of the sensor with regards to the trigger wheel)

 

disclaimer: as usual I have no idea if this information has any practical value  

 

 

 

Either way I will never touch a 2.0 Saab engine again, they have been nothing but hassle. The best option for the B207 is to convert it to a 2.2 with a z22se crank, Eagle steel rods and forged pistons. All of the 2.2 conversions have been fine.  

 

 

What sort of power/torque would this conversion net with the webcon gear?

[Exmantaa]

Nothing wrong with 2.0 Ecotecs here and running strong and trouble free...   (should be, It's almost the exact same engine and used to impressive HP level in the US.)

Issues we had here were a very smokey 2.2 that had Wiseco pistons. A 2.2 with worn crankshaft/rod bearings. And a really tired 2.2 that just gave up after quite some track use.

 

ps; look up "crankshaft balancer"... Mounting a solid crank pulley is not always a clever idea. (Alloy version even less. )