47 replies to this topic

[Adventure]

[font="'times new roman', serif;"]Hi,[/font]

 

[font="'times new roman', serif;"]I have after a lot of reading in this forum decided to start my own SC conversion.[/font]

 

[font="'times new roman', serif;"]Following pieces are collected during the last two years and I now feel ready to start:[/font]

 

• [font="'times new roman', serif;"]Eaton M62 Charger kit (bought from the states)[/font]
• [font="'times new roman', serif;"]Re-bored Saab b207 bottom and cylinder head[/font]
• [font="'times new roman', serif;"]Eagle Forged Crankshaft (CNC motorsports) I hope I do not need an external trigger wheel[/font]
• [font="'times new roman', serif;"]Lighter flywheel (Courtenaysport)[/font]
• [font="'times new roman', serif;"]Forged Rods Eagle H-beam forged steel crs-5765-cc[/font]
• [font="'times new roman', serif;"]Pistons Wiseco 86.5mm 10.0:1[/font]
• [font="'times new roman', serif;"]Compcams Stage 2 with adjustable camgears[/font]
• [font="'times new roman', serif;"]balancer delete[/font]
• [font="'times new roman', serif;"]Cooltex Alu radiator and charge cooler kit[/font]

 

[font="'times new roman', serif;"]The car is already equipped with:[/font]

• [font="'times new roman', serif;"]Dbilas exhaust manifold[/font]
• [font="'times new roman', serif;"]Racecat and 2bular catback exhaust system[/font]
• [font="'times new roman', serif;"]Maxogen induction kit[/font]
• [font="'times new roman', serif;"]OBD-Tuner[/font]

[font="'times new roman', serif;"]I am not sure what power I will get from this combo.[/font]

[font="'times new roman', serif;"]I will at this stage not machine the cylinderhead.[/font]

[font="'times new roman', serif;"]I am as Rossco planning to build with compression 10:1 and max rev 7000 to 7500rpm.[/font]

[font="'times new roman', serif;"]I am also not looking for crazy power figures. I want the engine to be bullet proof and drivable.[/font]

 

[font="'times new roman', serif;"]Some questions:[/font]

[font="'times new roman', serif;"]Injectors: Do you recommend Bosch blue for this build?[/font]

[font="'times new roman', serif;"]Will my exhaust setup work with this build?[/font]

[font="'times new roman', serif;"]What size of pulley do you recommend?[/font]

 

[font="'times new roman', serif;"]More questions will for sure follow [/font]

 

 

 

 

Edited by Adventure, 29 March 2018 - 05:35 AM.

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

You will be right at the maximum idc with that spec blue vxr injector ( what size pulley you fitting )

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

If you go for 3.0 or below I think you will need 630 cc injectors

[vocky]

Eagle Forged Crankshaft (CNC motorsports) I hope I do not need an external trigger wheel

 

Eagle crank has no trigger wheel, so you will need to add one

[Adventure]

 

Eagle Forged Crankshaft (CNC motorsports) I hope I do not need an external trigger wheel

 

Eagle crank has no trigger wheel, so you will need to add one

 

Hmm,

 

I will take a picture of the crank. My first impression was that the trigger wheel on the crank lookt exactly as on the Z22SE.

 

But you may be right

[vocky]

I stand corrected, there are two types of Eagle L61 crank, one with and one without an internal trigger wheel

 

[Exmantaa]

This forged Eagle crank (expensive. ) seems a bit of an overkill?? Stock 2.2 crank is proven to withstand 400+...

 

Why the Wiseco 10.0 pistons, as those are "light" version intended for NA builds. Their 8.9 compression pistons are intended for boosted use. These are a bit heavier, but have thicker ringlands. And take note that the Wiseco 10.0 compression is with a 1.0mm headgasket!

(And I'm no fan of 86.5mm overbored/sized Ecotec cilinders sleeves, as they are very thin and I've seen several consuming lots of oil..)  

 

Also why the adjustable cam gears?

 

Sorry for these remarks, but you have some questionable (unnessesary) expensive components here that could be used for a nice head porting + stronger valve springs.

 

 

 

 

[Adventure]

This forged Eagle crank (expensive. ) seems a bit of an overkill?? Stock 2.2 crank is proven to withstand 400+...

 

Why the Wiseco 10.0 pistons, as those are "light" version intended for NA builds. Their 8.9 compression pistons are intended for boosted use. These are a bit heavier, but have thicker ringlands. And take note that the Wiseco 10.0 compression is with a 1.0mm headgasket!

(And I'm no fan of 86.5mm overbored/sized Ecotec cilinders sleeves, as they are very thin and I've seen several consuming lots of oil..)  

 

Also why the adjustable cam gears?

 

Sorry for these remarks, but you have some questionable (unnessesary) expensive components here that could be used for a nice head porting + stronger valve springs.

 

 

 

 

Hi,

Reaon for using [color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]some questionable (unnessesary) expensive component is that I bought brand new Crank, Rods, Flywheel and engine block + cylinderhead i good conditions for a VERY nice price. So why not use better parts than needed in this case .[/color]

10.0 Pistons was recommended by the enine builder ans something that I now have to live with.

Overbore 86,5 is almost nothing compared to standard bore. I had to bore as the cylinder was not completely round.

The cams included the adjustable cam gears. Are there any reason not to use this gears?

[Adventure]

I stand corrected, there are two types of Eagle L61 crank, one with and one without an internal trigger wheel

 

OK. I was not sure. But this sounds great.

[Exmantaa]

 

This forged Eagle crank (expensive. ) seems a bit of an overkill?? Stock 2.2 crank is proven to withstand 400+...

 

Why the Wiseco 10.0 pistons, as those are "light" version intended for NA builds. Their 8.9 compression pistons are intended for boosted use. These are a bit heavier, but have thicker ringlands. And take note that the Wiseco 10.0 compression is with a 1.0mm headgasket!

(And I'm no fan of 86.5mm overbored/sized Ecotec cilinders sleeves, as they are very thin and I've seen several consuming lots of oil..)  

 

Also why the adjustable cam gears?

 

Sorry for these remarks, but you have some questionable (unnessesary) expensive components here that could be used for a nice head porting + stronger valve springs.

 

 

 

 

Hi,

Reaon for using [color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]some questionable (unnessesary) expensive component is that I bought brand new Crank, Rods, Flywheel and engine block + cylinderhead i good conditions for a VERY nice price. So why not use better parts than needed in this case .[/color]

10.0 Pistons was recommended by the enine builder ans something that I now have to live with.

Overbore 86,5 is almost nothing compared to standard bore. I had to bore as the cylinder was not completely round.

The cams included the adjustable cam gears. Are there any reason not to use this gears?

 

 

Depends on which adj gear you have, as some are questionable quality and the original GM ones are quite expensive.

The ecotec has very thin pressed-in steel cilinder liners/sleeves, so therefore an overbore will substantially weaken these. (you can buy new 86.0mm sleeves to press in.) But lets see how it turns out.

 

Just take care of the compression ratio.

A said, the Wiseco's have a 10.0 CR with a 1.0mm head gasket (with 0cc dish volume + 0.43mm understand) on a 2.2 Ecotec (Z22SE). But a B207 head has slightly less head volume due to the different valves (~51.5cc), so with a standard B207 headgasket (around 0.5mm thickness) you will be closer to 10.8CR.

 

Which is (too) high for an SC-ed 2.2 on normal fuel and without water/meth injection...
 

[Rosssco]

For info, I have still not fully assembled my engine and have not decided on whether to use the standard B207 head gasket (9.5:1) or thinner Z22SE gasket for closer to 10:1 - there isn't great information out there as to whether which is best. Higher CR may mean restricting ign timing potentially when using a 3.0" pulley, where as the lower CR could help optimise this.. Also, on my 2.4L engine, it ran fine with a 10.4:1 CR and a 3.1" pulley, although this was not optimised for ign timing and ran quite rich. I also exclusively used Premium (99ron) fuel. I was concerned about pushing the standard engine much further without altering the CR (or fitting stronger internals) however.

 

Ps.- If you just want a reliable engine with 300-ish bhp, just use a standard B207 bottom end, sell your expensive additional bit (may be for some profit) and spend money on headwork and cams like Exmantaa says above..

[Adventure]

Thaks for the information,

 

Regarding adjustable cam gears: I will have a check of the name of the manufacturer. I then appreciate if you then can tell me if they are OK or if I should change to standard.

Regarding overbore. Should have raised the quesiton earlier  . Now I have to[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;] see how it turns out [/color][color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;] [/color]

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]Regarding Gasket: Very valuable info for me. I will first ensure that standard headgasket is not used. What headgasket do you recommend not to exceed 10,0?[/color]

 

Regarding power: I start with this combination as it will give me the oportunity to increase and later search for more horspower where this parts are needed.

 

Regarding pulley: 3.1 or 3.0 seams to be workable alternatives.

[Exmantaa]

For info, I have still not fully assembled my engine and have not decided on whether to use the standard B207 head gasket (9.5:1) or thinner Z22SE gasket for closer to 10:1 - there isn't great information out there as to whether which is best. Higher CR may mean restricting ign timing potentially when using a 3.0" pulley, where as the lower CR could help optimise this..  

...........

 

The optimum CR is something that is not really tested well with comparable set-ups and not many "builders" look into this when choosing components.

We thought the Z22SE gasket with 10CR will be better suited for aggressive cams, but we did not see really results for that (yet):

- I have a saab gasket in my 2.0 Harrop engine and that runs pretty well (~355-360Hp now) from day 1,

- My mate Rob has a similar build 2.0 Harrop engine with a Z22SE gasket that run decent power, but not as responsive as mine.

(Not sure if he's still on the thinner SE gasket, but we're still looking for the cause why it is less responsive. We swapped cams, tune, ecu's, SC's, intake, exhaust... But still not as good as mine. Can be the difference is in the head porting, or maybe it's due to my "flowed" intake manifold...   )

 

Depends how you'll use the engine, but for track work with high heat load I still favour the 9.5 CR gasket. Also seeing the recent knock retard Ultimate has with his 10.1CR 2.3L Harrop engine...

If you have WI you can aim for a bit higher. Or use E85 and go for 12.0 CR.

[Rosssco]

 

For info, I have still not fully assembled my engine and have not decided on whether to use the standard B207 head gasket (9.5:1) or thinner Z22SE gasket for closer to 10:1 - there isn't great information out there as to whether which is best. Higher CR may mean restricting ign timing potentially when using a 3.0" pulley, where as the lower CR could help optimise this..  

...........

 

 

Depends how you'll use the engine, but for track work with high heat load I still favour the 9.5 CR gasket. Also seeing the recent knock retard Ultimate has with his 10.1CR 2.3L Harrop engine...

If you have WI you can aim for a bit higher. Or use E85 and go for 12.0 CR.

 

 

Well that's the things, majority road for me.. maybe 2 trackdays per year. The chap with the aggressive / responsive Saab engine over your way, what do they use?

 

Adventure, what is your primary use for your car?

[Exmantaa]

The "responsive" 2.0 is mine; 2.0 LSJ + St2 cams + Harrop, with standard Saab headgasket. (with balancers) Lightened stock flywheel => 355HP @ 7935rpm on the dyno. Another ported stock 2.0 B207, Dominique's, with M62 charger on a 3.1" pulley +St1 cams also has a Saab gasket fitted and that one runs like hell. (and he also has the stock balancers in, as he wanted minimal vibrations on longer road trips)

[Rosssco]

Another ported stock 2.0 B207, Dominique's, with M62 charger on a 3.1" pulley +St1 cams also has a Saab gasket fitted and that one runs like hell. (and he also has the stock balancers in, as he wanted minimal vibrations on longer road trips)

 

Ah yeah, it was Dominique's you mentioned before. Good, similar-ish spec to mine..

[Adventure]

Hi,

 

My car is mainly for road use. Maybe 2 trackdays per year. The car will also be driven by my kids (23 and 18 years). So the car needs to be drivable  .

 

 

 

 

[Rosssco]

Hi,   My car is mainly for road use. Maybe 2 trackdays per year. The car will also be driven by my kids (23 and 18 years). So the car needs to be drivable  .

http://www.vx220.org...148276-racetcs/

[Adventure]

Thickness of headgasket: Not sure I follow the discussion. Is the best for my uild to source headgasket with thickness 1 to 1,5 mm, to stay around CR 10?

[oakmere]

What it the thinking on higher CR say 10.5:1 with a larger pulley 3.5? I might SC my engine at some point but it has a 0.5mm skimmed head and larger valves. I would like to go back to std cams and use a smaller ear pod radiator. Sorry to hijack the thread 😬