56 replies to this topic

[oblomov]

Friend of mine who was doing big mileage back and forth to London had his Alpha converted to LPG ten years or so ago.  2k install I seem to remember - not much boot space left after the tank..  He said performance was about the same but never having been in the car with him I don't know.  My local MOT place supplies it for cars and he does conversions but I don't know how many refill points there are throughout the country.  Probably not many considering less that 1% of cars run on it.

[slindborg]

many many many LPG points around, in most "big" brand petrol stations. its around half the price of Unleaded and more knock resistant iirc so you could run moar boosts.

 

The method of vehicle and vehicle use taxation will need to be looked at with a full EV setup... At present electricity "only" attracts VAT (I'm guessing at the low rate, not sure what that is), so charging your car up seems p*ss cheap as you arent paying fuel duty and 20% vat (that said, at 125.9/litre petrol is around 13p/KWH and electric isnt far off the same in many places).

The problem is that the govt will lose out on fuel duty and 20% vat on petrol/derv sales, and only take increased electric VAT. I'd imagine most EV's are VED exempt at the moment, party as a fit in to the farce that is CO2 based VED and partly to make morons believe its going to save them a fortune per year. What about when ALL PCV's are EV?!?! they are still heavy, they are still using the roads, they will still wear them out... oh no. maybe pay per mile, maybe put VED back to being "normal" money, maybe charge more for EV charging at home with smarter meters etc.

 

in short, its NEVER going to be about saving money for the end user

 

[siztenboots]

home electric is 5% vat , upto to 33Kwh a day afaik

 

https://www.gov.uk/g...er-notice-70119

[C8RKH]

Petrol will still be sold till at least 2045.

Battery EVs will be dead in the water by 2030 at the latest.

[Ivor]

Petrol will still be sold till at least 2045.

Battery EVs will be dead in the water by 2030 at the latest.

First sensible comment in this thread

[pete-r]

Lots of manufacturers will incentivise charging station at your home.

Nothing to do with making it faster or easier, it's so that eventually they can tax you differently for different power consumption. 1kw to charge you tesla will need to be taxed at a higher rate than to boils your kettle.

It'll be a meter for your car.

[Ivor]

Lots of manufacturers will incentivise charging station at your home.

Nothing to do with making it faster or easier, it's so that eventually they can tax you differently for different power consumption. 1kw to charge you tesla will need to be taxed at a higher rate than to boils your kettle.

It'll be a meter for your car.

That's why it won't work, it will be easy to install a none taxed charger, EVs will only work from a gov finance (revenue generation) perspective if they get per mile charging to work

Edited by Ivor, 07 February 2020 - 07:34 AM.

[coldel]

 

Petrol will still be sold till at least 2045.

Battery EVs will be dead in the water by 2030 at the latest.

First sensible comment in this thread

 

 

I would agree with the first line, petrol will be sold as long as there is consumer demand for it. 

 

The second, well, what is it that will be sold? For arguments sake there are 1.5m-2m cars sold new in the UK alone, it begs the question if you cannot sell petrol cars, what will it be instead?

[FLD]

Sinclair C5's?  The future came too early

Imagine that track day!

[Ivor]

Petrol will still be sold till at least 2045.

Battery EVs will be dead in the water by 2030 at the latest.

First sensible comment in this thread

I would agree with the first line, petrol will be sold as long as there is consumer demand for it.

The second, well, what is it that will be sold? For arguments sake there are 1.5m-2m cars sold new in the UK alone, it begs the question if you cannot sell petrol cars, what will it be instead?

H2 fuel cell vehicles

[coldel]

 

 

 

Petrol will still be sold till at least 2045.

Battery EVs will be dead in the water by 2030 at the latest.

First sensible comment in this thread

I would agree with the first line, petrol will be sold as long as there is consumer demand for it.

The second, well, what is it that will be sold? For arguments sake there are 1.5m-2m cars sold new in the UK alone, it begs the question if you cannot sell petrol cars, what will it be instead?

H2 fuel cell vehicles

 

 

Why? It's genuine question out of curiosity. 

[C8RKH]

 

 

Petrol will still be sold till at least 2045.

Battery EVs will be dead in the water by 2030 at the latest.

First sensible comment in this thread

 

 

I would agree with the first line, petrol will be sold as long as there is consumer demand for it. 

 

The second, well, what is it that will be sold? For arguments sake there are 1.5m-2m cars sold new in the UK alone, it begs the question if you cannot sell petrol cars, what will it be instead?

 

 

The cost of green hydrogen is falling quickly as is the cost of the fuel cells and all major manufacturers are advanced in their R&D on the tech.  The benefits of green hydrogen and the costs of using it from an infrastructure perspective are far more attractive than having 30m cars and associated charging points.

 

BEV's will be like Betamax tapes. Obsolete before they are widespread.

[FLD]

The problem with hydrogen powered cars is not the fuel cell or the infrastructure, it's storing the gas in the car.  Obviously a big cylinder isn't the most ideal.  Fuel cells have moved on and we now see methanol fuel cells which provide an interesting alternative.  I'm sure you can figure out the problems etc most of which have googlable solutions. 

[siztenboots]

NH3 (ammonia) is better , storage at closer to ambient temps , more H per volume , same fuel cell tech, raw energy density of liquid ammonia is 11.5 MJ/L, which is higher than the 8.491 MJ/L for liquid hydrogen and the 4.5 MJ/L for compressed H2 at 690 bar and 15°C

[FLD]

I would pour methanol on my hand.  I wouldn't pour ammonia on my hand!  Ammonia is far too reactive to be viable IMO.

[siztenboots]

I would pour methanol on my hand.  I wouldn't pour ammonia on my hand!  Ammonia is far too reactive to be viable IMO.

 

converting pure CO2 to methanol , plus some hydrogen? I know Iceland has a geothermal based plant doing it

[Ivor]

Petrol will still be sold till at least 2045.

Battery EVs will be dead in the water by 2030 at the latest.

First sensible comment in this thread

I would agree with the first line, petrol will be sold as long as there is consumer demand for it.

The second, well, what is it that will be sold? For arguments sake there are 1.5m-2m cars sold new in the UK alone, it begs the question if you cannot sell petrol cars, what will it be instead?

H2 fuel cell vehicles

Why? It's genuine question out of curiosity.

Hydrogen can be produced from green energy and is entirely green when used so it's a win both ends

[coldel]

So we are in effect waiting for the country to properly shift over to renewable energy production in effect to reduce the CO2 process which at the moment is pretty prohibitive. 

 

Shame muppets like Trump are in denial and blocking green energy projects by UK companies.

Edited by coldel, 08 February 2020 - 11:07 AM.

[C8RKH]

For every muppet like Trump there is another muppet who can't see past a Duracell....

[coldel]

For every muppet like Trump there is another muppet who can't see past a Duracell....

?


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