Jump to content


Photo

Petrol/diesel/hybrid Sales Banned By 2035


  • Please log in to reply
36 replies to this topic

#1 Ormes

Ormes

    Scary Internerd

  • 4,580 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Corsham (nr. Chippenham)

Posted 04 February 2020 - 01:22 PM

So Britain... the country who can't receive broadband if the hedge in your front garden is too tall, is going to roll out a complete charging infrastructure to the UK, and the power stations needed to power them all... in 15 years!  OK :)

 

All of those houses that continue to be built with no off-street parking!

 

We best figure out hydrogen pretty quickly as the above is simply not going to happen is it!



#2 SteveA

SteveA

    .

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,122 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North East UK

Posted 04 February 2020 - 01:44 PM

To be fair, mass market electric cars weren't really a thing until 7 or so years ago, now I see them every day. Only a very small proportion but it is happening. I double that time I think it is absolutely possible. Just because something is hard doesn't mean we shouldn't do it. 



#3 Ormes

Ormes

    Scary Internerd

  • 4,580 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Corsham (nr. Chippenham)

Posted 04 February 2020 - 02:55 PM

I live nr. Bath which seems to be Tesla town, but the drivers no doubt go home, park it in their garage and charge it, rather than running a cable out of their living room window and across the pavement to their car which is parked on the street 200 yards away.  If electric is the solution, charging at home must surely be part of it, on every residential street across Britain!  It just took 2+ years to repair a viaduct on the M5/M6 interchange at the cost of £100m... I still fail to see how the infrastructure will be rolled out in time... I expect it will be 5 years before an approach and plan is agreed!

 

Technology needs to evolve, and quickly... and it will... hopefully not making whatever infrastructure is being rolled out obsolete.

 

Such a tricky challenge to get right.



#4 smiley

smiley

    Thetan level 15

  • 10,143 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Netherlands

Posted 04 February 2020 - 03:13 PM

I live nr. Bath which seems to be Tesla town, but the drivers no doubt go home, park it in their garage and charge it, rather than running a cable out of their living room window and across the pavement to their car which is parked on the street 200 yards away.  If electric is the solution, charging at home must surely be part of it, on every residential street across Britain!

 

I had the same idea over here, yet 80% of sold EV's here, uses public charging. Amazing.


Edited by smiley, 04 February 2020 - 03:13 PM.


#5 SteveA

SteveA

    .

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,122 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North East UK

Posted 04 February 2020 - 03:39 PM

There is a car park near me that charges £50 a year to park and you get free charging included. I do agree there is some serious work to do but 15 years is a long time. We need the Chinese Hospital building methodology :)



#6 Ormes

Ormes

    Scary Internerd

  • 4,580 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Corsham (nr. Chippenham)

Posted 04 February 2020 - 04:02 PM

There is a car park near me that charges £50 a year to park and you get free charging included. I do agree there is some serious work to do but 15 years is a long time. We need the Chinese Hospital building methodology :)

 

Indeed we need the Chinese Hospital building methedology thumbsup

 

£50 a year... you live up North don't you :lol:
 



#7 Ormes

Ormes

    Scary Internerd

  • 4,580 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Corsham (nr. Chippenham)

Posted 04 February 2020 - 04:03 PM

 

I live nr. Bath which seems to be Tesla town, but the drivers no doubt go home, park it in their garage and charge it, rather than running a cable out of their living room window and across the pavement to their car which is parked on the street 200 yards away.  If electric is the solution, charging at home must surely be part of it, on every residential street across Britain!

 

I had the same idea over here, yet 80% of sold EV's here, uses public charging. Amazing.

 

 

Interesting stuff... it will be interesting to see how it plays out :)
 



#8 techieboy

techieboy

    Supercharger of Doom

  • 22,725 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bedford

Posted 04 February 2020 - 04:06 PM

I expect it will be 5 years before an approach and plan is agreed!

 

The government are praying that the car manufacturers will solve the problem for them by building the infrastructure. Which they won't.

 

I've seriously considered the Jag i-Pace recently and for 90% of the time it would be perfect. The problem is, the other 10%. My office is 185 miles from home (luckily I rarely bother going there) which is right at the very limit of it's real range. Luckily I've got a drive and garage so there'd be no problem with a slightly quicker than nothing home charge point pre-journery, but there's no charging facility at the office, other than dropping a domestic extension cable out of a 3rd floor window and trailing it across the car park to wherever I get parked. The only so called "public" quick charger within 0.5 miles of the office is at a BMW dealership which I guess is in semi-permanent use with i3/8's

 

We're off to Cornwall in June, so 340 miles each way. Which means an almost complete charge would be needed mid-journey. Wouldn't be too painful if there were any of the 100KWh chargers that the Jag supports somewhere en-route. Assuming of course they're not being used at the time (and having to wait a couple of hours before you can even get on it) or working at all. Sitting in a motorway service station for 3 hours on a 30KWh quick charger doesn't exactly appeal (especially if the parking limit is for 2 hours before NCP/ECP start firing off parking tickets) but a 7.2KWh for 10 hours is just nonsensical. I've no idea what the charging situation would be when we get there. It's a small village and only on street parking, "close by".

 

It can be risky enough petrol station wise but god knows how you'd do the equivalent of a Highland Hoon/NC500 type thing in an EV. You'll just have to start adding an extra day to the end of each trip. Go on the Hoon for 3 days? That'll be 5 days away. Go to Le Mans for 3 days? That'll be 5 days away. It's a bloody good job these EV's have more interior space as we'll have to be sleeping in them.

 

Until they crack adding 100 miles of range in a minute, like a petrol or diesel pump does they're going to be hard work. Christ, my teeth start itching if the driver in front of me at the petrol station decides not to pay at the pump, already. :beat: :D



#9 Ormes

Ormes

    Scary Internerd

  • 4,580 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Corsham (nr. Chippenham)

Posted 04 February 2020 - 04:11 PM

 

I expect it will be 5 years before an approach and plan is agreed!

 


 

Christ, my teeth start itching if the driver in front of me at the petrol station decides not to pay at the pump, already. :beat: :D

 

 

:lol:



#10 FLD

FLD

    MODERATOR WANNABE

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,413 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Near nantwich
  • Interests:Tugging my todger.

Posted 04 February 2020 - 04:30 PM

A solution would be to have battery change points rather than charge points and petrol stations become battery stations.  It does require quick change batteries but it'd work.  It may require some sort of central battery organisation but it's do-able.



#11 pete-r

pete-r

    I never drive faster than I can see

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,720 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Wales

Posted 04 February 2020 - 05:44 PM

They need to build a couple of power stations before they can entertain this. We buy power from France during busy periods and this is going to be put a massive increase in strain on the grid.

#12 alanwetherall

alanwetherall

    Member

  • 121 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Corby
  • Interests:Playing Tennis, watching TV car programes, enjoying my retiremnet

Posted 04 February 2020 - 06:02 PM

Check out the Chemical engineer, a quote below about hydrogen cars in Japan

 

Japan’s massive car industry is getting on-board with its ‘big three’ (Toyota, Nissan, Honda) teaming up with Air Liquide to boost the national re-fuelling network. And, having pioneered the Prius petrol-hybrid in the 90s, Toyota recently launched the Mirai , the world’s first purpose-built hydrogen fuel cell vehicle. Its hydrogen-fed fuel cell can even power homes, potentially a life-saver in an earthquake-prone nation

 

.https://www.toyota.c...cars/new-mirai/

 

 



#13 coldel

coldel

    Need to get Out More

  • PipPipPipPip
  • 955 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Richmond

Posted 04 February 2020 - 06:04 PM

It's not going to be the government though that has to roll out the infrastructure, it will be private companies, thats where you buy your fuel from now, thats where you will charge up in future. The private sector tends to be a bit more competent than the government ministers blindly throwing money all over the place.

 

I also face the same issues, live in London, no drive, 5 street lamps on a road of 60 cars (concerning the street lamp charging solution). But ultimately you have to look forwards not think the present is the future. 10 years ago the idea an EV could travel 200+ miles on a single charge on sale to the general public was ludicrous. Battery tech, driven by a hugely competitive private sector, will be literally miles ahead of where it is now, not inconceivable for example that you could charge your own batteries in house, take them out and swap them over in your car for the emptied ones. 

 

Interestingly my mate is a senior person in renewable energy, he says the electricity supply doesn't need to increase if the charging is managed, the main problem energy producers have especially renewables where he works, is that they generate most of their energy at night (windy seas!) and have to store it - ideally charging of cars would happen over night and tap into this surplus. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I love my VX, love the smell of the engine, the noise, everything - I think EVs are nothing short of heretic, horrific soulless cars that will kill of vehicle ownership as a passion. And intend to make the most of mine whilst I can! But a move away from burning stuff and creating CO2 makes all the sense in the world really, and the barriers to it are all solvable. 


Edited by coldel, 04 February 2020 - 06:05 PM.


#14 PaulCP

PaulCP

    Scary Internerd

  • 5,988 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Suffolk

Posted 04 February 2020 - 06:41 PM

. I do agree there is some serious work to do but 15 years is a long time. We need the Chinese Hospital building methodology :)

15 years appears to be a long time but there’s no plan at the moment. Given the pace that bureaucracy works in this country in devising a suitable plan and then executing it 15 years is a very short period of time, particularly when they realise that the plan doesn’t work a few years after it starts to be executed.

Smart motorways are a prime example.



#15 hairy

hairy

    Moonlander

  • 5,504 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bristol
  • Interests:cars, beer, nature

Posted 04 February 2020 - 10:21 PM

It won't happen. Just more lies and bluster from Boris so he doesn't get a shoeing at COP26.



#16 smiley

smiley

    Thetan level 15

  • 10,143 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Netherlands

Posted 05 February 2020 - 01:04 AM

After 10 years of promoting EV, over here we are at 1.6%.

2012 was our silly season.
Self employed people going into EV, were able to pay 17.000 euro for a 100.000 euro tesla, due to all subsidized constructions.
It was very succesfull, but very shortlived.

 



#17 coldel

coldel

    Need to get Out More

  • PipPipPipPip
  • 955 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Richmond

Posted 05 February 2020 - 09:01 AM

I cannot imagine the very first ICE cars were priced at your everyday person either - once they become more mainstream and affordable those that can charge at home and use the car purely as a vehicle to get around in they will buy them. UPS have just ordered 20,000 EVs from a British firm, I can imagine businesses will look at the very favourable running costs of EVs and doing more of this. 

 

Funny thing is imagine starting cars all over again - if you could have a car you charge overnight and its ready to go in the morning vs one that you have to drive off to forecourt somewhere and pay x10 more to drive it the same distance what would you choose as your runabout? If they were for instance the same cost. We would all be complaining about having to drive off to a forecourt, queuing and paying much more, no screw that!

 

In a similar vein, we are an island surrounded by water and wind, lets build something that creates electricity. Do we burn stuff which we ultimately cannot sustain and have to import or do we just set up farms which generate power for us without having to source raw materials? 

 

Bloody hell did I just say all that...just call me Rainbow Warrior  :happy:



#18 smiley

smiley

    Thetan level 15

  • 10,143 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Netherlands

Posted 05 February 2020 - 09:20 AM

Remeber the 80% public charging i mentioned earlier here?

Local charging is about 23 eurocents per Kwh.
Public charging can run up to 79 eurocents here.
For those people that have to rely on public charging, the costs per mile are almost double that of a gas car. (pure on petrol versus electricity comparison, not all the rest costs of the car)
And these companies over here are thinking of raising the prices even more.

 

 

 


Edited by smiley, 05 February 2020 - 09:21 AM.


#19 swast4

swast4

    Super Member

  • 389 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Heswall, UK
  • Interests:Trackdays

Posted 05 February 2020 - 10:49 AM

Interesting subject and something I've been thinking about as I saw a link in work to a company that is developing a hydrogen supply in the North West to help reduce CO2 emissions.

If you are interested it was HyNet.

The brief gist is that they are going to put 20% H2 into residential natural gas that we use at home and supply H2 to industry. This will reduce the emissions as it's a reduction in fossil fuels. Then the emissions (CO2) produced from the H2 manufacturer, will be piped to redundant gas caps off Anglesey, and just stored for ever there. I don't know how they are going to make the H2.
I thought this was a really clever idea and great for the North West, in terms of jobs and investment etc.
If you look on the map, the H2 is fed out from a central location.
Now if you had H2 filling stations in these main routes that may help the feasibility of providing an infrastructure to supply H2 if the vehicles become available. As not everyone hasc drivers, they may use electric and H2 together or suffer by side as a solution ?
Posted Image

Sent from my F1 using Tapatalk



#20 coldel

coldel

    Need to get Out More

  • PipPipPipPip
  • 955 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Richmond

Posted 05 February 2020 - 10:55 AM

With all due respect, the market conditions are not the same, we are not the Netherlands and we shouldnt be assuming what happens there is a pre-cursor to how things work elsewhere. It doesn't cost 79 cents per KWH to charge up in public places in the UK. We need to consider what the future will bring, rolling forwards the current situation 20 years from now isn't realistic. Government legislation is not going support the ongoing sales of ICE cars, they will tax them higher, tax petrol higher, the cost of ICE will become painfully high and stunt sales. This will push EV production up the priority list for the car manufacturers and energy suppliers/private sector energy provision will see the growing opportunity to provide infrastructure and revolutionise how we power our vehicles which creates a much more competitive environment for this than we see at the moment which is good news for consumers and prices. We are looking at a 20-30 year shift not something we might have observed in the fledgling years in the 2010s - that wasn't typical.

 

All that said, EVs aren't the be all and end all, batteries are pretty old hat, there are plenty of cutting edge technologies out there and as with any technology it tends to be exponential in its development.

 

Just to reiterate, I love my VX and its ICE power!






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users