43 replies to this topic

[alanwetherall]

Just watched chasing cars and they had a 1896 car on show which was a hybrid car. it ran on gasoline and electric. we havent moved on much. It was sold for over 400,000 dollers.as it was the oldest car in USA of this type

[coldel]

Just watched chasing cars and they had a 1896 car on show which was a hybrid car. it ran on gasoline and electric. we havent moved on much. It was sold for over 400,000 dollers.as it was the oldest car in USA of this type

 

Amazing story, just read about it here https://www.hemmings...-amelia-island/

[smiley]

Let me refrase; the public charging started near 30 cents, making it very popular and people took those rates into account when buying an expensive EV.

Some of these compnies now anounced this trial period to be closed, and the prices match their investments.

Ie, you can expect the same to happen in the UK.

 

The only way to keep grip on your costs, is local charging.

 

Edited by smiley, 05 February 2020 - 12:21 PM.

[coldel]

But that is with a market where EVs are a minority, like I say that is not in any way relevant to what the future would look like - the future is not bound by the rules of what is now. In future you will have better tech, faster charging, and more importantly ownership of ICE will be multiples more expensive than it is now. The EV market will have many more options from both a vehicle variety to the charger networks being hotly contested by the private sector looking to grab a slice of the pie, this will accelerate innovation and drive down prices. What you are referring to is very common in the early stages of diffusion of innovation and development, high costs, but longer term these costs drop.

 

The big variable that the current market doesn't account for is the government legislation to remove ICE vehicles, if you think the increased price of charging is prohibitive now, wait 20 years and see how much it costs and how far you have to drive to find a petrol station. 

 

What might we see in 20 years then? Portable battery packs that you can have spares of that you charge in the home and take outside? What about removable packs that you literally drive onto a forecourt, your car dumps the dead one out and a machine places a fully charged one back in? What about something more conventional like companies that have vans carrying chargers which you can hail on an app and it comes along and charges your car whilst its parked in 10 minutes? We shouldn't think that the future should be just a replica of the current with electricity replacing petrol. 

Edited by coldel, 05 February 2020 - 01:07 PM.

[slindborg]

its the HUGE revenue loss the govt will have to refill from a drop of ICE use.... Its a bit like they "would like" folks to not smoke, but the tax from smokers goes a long way to fill the hole in the NHS budget

 

[coldel]

It will end up on a multiple of things, from taxing EVs (but no where near the extent of ICE will be in the future) and pushing the tax onto higher rate income tax, service taxes, VAT on energy, to literally your car measuring road usage and taxing you accordingly (which makes a lot more sense than the current VED system) etc. The world is changing all over the place and not just with cars, online businesses pay far too little tax for example - the whole tax system needs a shake up to be honest it's an old fashioned system that is not fit for purpose in this age.

Edited by coldel, 05 February 2020 - 01:23 PM.

[jonnyboy]

It's a typically human kneejerk reaction thing at the moment. The technology coming in now in terms of electric can never be the final answer and in of itself it is a very dirty technology. It creates a LOT of waste not to mention having to do business with some dodgy states to get the raw materials (like petrol then!) It would be a real shame if all of our cars got taken off the road. We would still have a pretty significant problem to deal with in terms of CO2 if everyone packed their cars away tomorrow. Bulk haulage and shipping/farming and electricity production (irony anyone?) are the main contributors. As ever with any problem you care to think of its ultimately solvable by population management not the actual behaviour of the population. There are just too many people! 

[coldel]

Unfortunately we cannot cull people 

 

All you can do is better manage what you do and how you behave. If you read the websites about this sort of stuff, none of them claim to be 100% clean or the like, they do claim (and on the whole accurately) that the options are cleaner (not clean), less damaging, make use of resources that are renewable etc. There is also the flip side, at the same time we are pumping extra crap into the air at an historical all time high, we are at the same time clearing Earths natural balance to CO2 through deforestation. There is no easy solution, which is why companies work towards carbon neutral not carbon zero, most people understand we are at a point in the human race where we cannot just stop everyone doing what they do.

 

Cars are not solely the issue, but they are part of the problem, they have to play their part.

 

As an aside for me there is also localised pollution issues amongst other things and I would personally not want to end up places in the UK being like some cities in China where the sun is blotted out by smog.

Edited by coldel, 05 February 2020 - 02:10 PM.

[Nev]

So Britain... the country who can't receive broadband if the hedge in your front garden is too tall, is going to roll out a complete charging infrastructure to the UK, and the power stations needed to power them all... in 15 years!  OK

 

All of those houses that continue to be built with no off-street parking!

 

We best figure out hydrogen pretty quickly as the above is simply not going to happen is it!

 

It's woeful how clueless and detached our politicians are isn't it. Yet, the system empowers them to make these fuckwit promises. Mad mad world.

[FLD]

As a politician its easy.  You have a four year term.  Promise something stooopid like free broadband for everyone (woohoo! Who wouldn't want free broadband). Get your term in and then leave the vote winning promises for some other dick to bail out on.

Free electric cars for everyone? It'll solve all the worlds problems....honest.

They just don't actually care, its all self marketing.

[SteveA]

There is a famous saying “Politicians know exactly what needs to be done, they just don’t know how to get re-elected after”

[coldel]

To be fair to brand all politicians (bearing in mind there are over 600 in parliament and many more that do not sit) as one thing is unfair. If you follow MPs outside the standard top twenty that get all the air time you will find some great work going on, granted some MPs including our PM are horrendous human beings and pathological liars but some are decent people. I guess the system of democracy itself is to blame, it dictates that a party is voted in, parties will simply do what needs to be done to stay in constantly chasing the vote rather than doing whats right.

[Gadget2]

Very few persons mention the real danger when one of these vechicles catch fire.

 

The lithium - ion batteries are almost impossible to extinguish, so much so that Teslas and other such cars are banned from trackdays.

 

The lack of engine noise is creating problems for blind persons, not knowing if an electric car is near!

 

I guess these are not for me. (Plus I love the whine from my supercharged VX!!!)

[swast4]

Where did you here that they are banned from trackdays ? This didn't seem right to me ?


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[Ivor]

Where did you here that they are banned from trackdays ? This didn't seem right to me ?


Sent from my F1 using Tapatalk

An e Moto GP bike caught fire last year in a race, caused much consternation

[FLD]

Lithium fires will pull the oxygen out of sand!

[Ivor]

Lithium fires will pull the oxygen out of sand!

As far as I recall, the fire 'drill' involved lifting the bike and removing it to a safe part of the circuit to burn out peacefully....

[smiley]

With all due respect, the market conditions are not the same, we are not the Netherlands and we shouldnt be assuming what happens there is a pre-cursor to how things work elsewhere. It doesn't cost 79 cents per KWH to charge up in public places in the UK.

 

You were spot on. It does not cost 79 eurocents per KWH in the UK.

It's 82 eurocents. 

 

Edited by smiley, 23 February 2020 - 11:17 AM.

[coldel]

If you look hard enough you will find that, the majority are not that high though 

[Spandex]

I’m concerned about the tax aspect. How will HM Gov supplement it’s dwindling revenue from fuel taxes as EV take up increases and less petrol and diesel is sold..I can only assume by punitively increasing the tax rate on fuel thereby making ICE cars less and less viable and ultimately prohibitively expensive to use. £2, £3, £4 per litre in a few years ?