84 replies to this topic

[Turbo Head]

If you are suggesting that you are speaking about another LSD (ie the stock one Quaife already do) then yes, I have misinterpeted your post, and for which I will happily apologise, however your post is very unclear on this point so you must share some blame in the miscomunication.

If you ARE referring to the Plans version then I stand by my comments and no apology is needed.

Ian I interpreted your post, as you were looking at a group purchase direct from the manufacturer for the Plan designed LSD. I think others have interpreted it that way too. If this is not the case then I do apologise. I would however think that it might be worth being patient for a few more weeks when we know how the modified Plans LSD performs on Bletch’s car. We could then approach Graham with a group purchase offer for a design that will suit our car better.

[the gits]

I really don't want to get involved, and actually last week thought "I'll stop posting on here". But I've changed my mind. All I can say is that there are hundreds of competitors out there, and we cannot stop people buying from them. Similarly we cannot stop people from buying direct from our suppliers. What we are trying to do is create a business based on an opportunity in the market. That opportunity is for someone who really understands mid-engined sports cars, who races them and tracks them, who has their own on-site test track where they prove everything before it goes on sale. Our Technical Director is Vauxhall trained. Our staff have international motorsport experience, I have a degree in automotive engineering, and worked as a consultant for Toyota Europe, Ford, Aston Martin, Jaguarsport, and TWR. I think that is a sufficient differentiator (when compared to the usual Vauxhall main dealer) to make enthusiastic owners come to us. Our added bonus is that what we do can be tested by our customers on the track, or, at a very minimum, on several miles of private roads before leaving us. That is what ensures that we are not the usual "bullshit" tuning business. My philosophy on this is based on my belief that the internet has changed everything. It is impossible now to trade on the basis of keeping things a secret and using that to rip off consumers. Information is just too easy to get. So Plans will continue to act according to our "modus operandi" as articulated on our web site. We work in a consultative manner with our customers and focus on knowledge transfer. If we do this people will come back and buy more. We'll also attract intelligent customers who tend to have more money to spend because they earn more money. The diff thing isn't a big issue for us. We make less than £50 on each one we sell mail order, so losing five diff sales isn't going to ruin my retirement plans. Buy the standard 35 degree helix diff. It'll be better than not having one. The ATB diff never "locks" like a conventional diff. It transfers drive to the wheel with more grip. Our version of the Quaife diff alters the torque-bias characteristics as a result of a reduced helix angle and different sun-gears. By reducing the rate and amount of drive transfering to the wheel with more grip, a VX will handle better still, I guarantee it. www.plansmotorsport.com

Edited by the gits, 05 February 2005 - 07:21 PM.

[barrybethel]

Graham I agree with everything you just said, except the bit about intelligence and wages. I am really, really clever. I have just been on Friendsreunited and seen lots of thickos I was at school with that are obviously more coined-up than me. Bugger. Did you see my enquiry on the vxr tyres thread by the way? I need your expertise and am willing to pay. Dean

[dude]

the gits: when can you deliver your version of the quaife atb?. if i can have it within 45 days i´ll buy one from you at the price you ask. i´ll take your word for that it´s better than the "original" one. if it´s not i´ll tell the world. fair enough

[the gits]

Quaife are making the sun gears now, so should be less than two weeks. How many diffs should I buy? What do you think the total number of buyers is?

[Ricky2772]

Our Technical Director is Vauxhall trained.

err...is that a good thing?!?


...just kidding...

[easy]

Quaife are making the sun gears now, so should be less than two weeks.

How many diffs should I buy? What do you think the total number of buyers is?

How long is a piece of string??

1 here for March

[cyberman]

JT I too see no reason to go to war over this. I appreciate your apology. I am sorry you misunderstood me. Doubtless it is difficult for you to reread many fora everyday to get the significant context on long threads. I believe most regular participants here were not confused as is evident from the questions asked and the messages of support: so little harm done and now healed as far as I am concerned. As to OZ wheels. You have helpfully published an expected weight. However, I and others would like to know what the rim widths are (7" and 8"?) and in particular I would like to know how the rim is placed. Is it centred on the current rim or offset? I assume if you have let a contract to manufacture you have a detailed product specification. You clearly understand such things, for earlier and in another context, you have said that you have wheel technical drawings. I am quite prepared to order against a specification. If, when the product arrives it does not meet the spec, you and I would speak again about the transaction and no doubt you would be having a similar discusson with OZ. It is the ordinary way of business. Of course, if OZ have said "we are going to knock up some wheels for the VX do you fancy selling them" then I could see that you might not have either much information or control over the transaction. Whichever, it would be helpful to have more detailed specifications. Turbo head I am grateful for your apology. I am sorry you misunderstood me. I should like to make a couple of things clear: I did not seek to organise a group buy and I specifically said I would not organise such. I did make the information about Quaife stock available so others might save money if thats what they wanted to do. I first mentioned this *before* Graham mentioned the new design. I don't have a position on whether its better to wait for the new diff. The current one, in my view, is satisfactory for its principle purpose which I see as a car-taming aid. I do not yet have enough information on the new one to know whether it will be "better" for cars primarily used on the road. A LSD has subtle effects and its performance in a variety of circumstances is important. I am genuinely interested in Graham's design and look forward very much to finding out how well it works. Facts, figures and reports will all help. If, after all this brou ha ha, Graham will let me drive his demonstrator I will be very glad to. If it works "better" than my existent unit for my purposes I would buy one. Simple as that really. Kind regards - Ian

Edited by cyberman, 09 February 2005 - 05:16 PM.

[cyberman]

The ATB diff never "locks" like a conventional diff.  It transfers drive to the wheel with more grip.  Our version of the Quaife diff alters the torque-bias characteristics as a result of a reduced helix angle and different sun-gears.  By reducing the rate and amount of drive transfering to the wheel with more grip, a VX will handle better still, I guarantee it.

Graham

I am grateful for your sensible input. With such a good mission statement I can't see Plans being other than succesful.

WRT to your statement about the way it works I rather thought that was what you might be doing. I guess the trick is to get the transfer function right. If you will permit it I should very much like to come and try it out when you have a demonstrator. If you can arrange for some wet corners and some dry corners that would be ideal.....

I should like to diverge from ATBs and speak of ARBs. Is the one you offer a: adjustable b: stiffer than the one fitted to the VXT? If both are true I should be grateful if you can indicate the range of torsional stiffness available by adjustment. I have recently uprated my suspension and feel the need to experiment with a stiffer front rollbar.

BTW, I have also considered fitting a rear ARB. It seems possible but tricky. This is a road / track dual usage accomodation. Have you ever had to implement one or given consideration to a suitable design? It would need to be adjustable. Its the making it adjustable which I have found difficult as the possible arrangement I came up with would run perilously close to the drive shafts.

Kind regards - Ian

Edited by cyberman, 09 February 2005 - 06:24 PM.

[the gits]

ARB - The one we offer is (a) adjustable and ( stiffer than the standard one. It's stiffer as we have gone up on wall thinkness, and the adjustability means that that you have a range of stiffness up from standard. The location to the chassis is much better as we use nylon mounts bolted directed to the lower wishbone bolts, as opposed to rubber mounts bolted to a not-very-strong bit of the chassis as on the standard car. Its's made from T45 steel, the ends are jigged and fabricated (as opposed to just "squashed" and drilled; and the whole kity is made by not one but two McLaren F1 subcontractors. If you have uprated springs you will need to uprate the ARB correspondingly. The main reason for stiffing the ARB is to reduce intial turn in understeer. If the car intially understeers - it's difficult to then stop it understeering - unless you upset it by either lifting off, or a flick of the steering, or both. This is inevitably slow. Too stiff you will get mid-corner understeer - so it's always a balance. On the rear ARB, we do have one. We have tried it in an Elise (in British GT). Effect was marginal. I couldn't tell the difference. But on the front the difference is amazing.

[cyberman]

Graham Thanks for that. I'll be in touch to talk this through. Kind regards - Ian

[cicastol]

I Word of warning tho, make sure you put the correct oil in it. I had mine filled up twice by idiots that put the wrong oil in it and nearly fried it. Once was on my way to le man and it had to be trailered back from france by the AA.

It should run with the gearbox oil,BUT F23 gearbox run with dexron III ATF fluid and quaife doesn't reccommend the use of ATF fluids
Now ???

[Ricky2772]

so far I had no probs with dextron 3 ATF, but I also run the car for many K miles on 75W90 castrol synth, so my guess is that both work.... the quaife had a tag on it reading to use the SAME gearbox oil... why would they write so, knowing it does on a F23 gbox?

[minime]

i wonder if this has happened to me as i fried my gearbox at the weekend and i have a quaife atb fitted!

[Ricky2772]

i wonder if this has happened to me as i fried my gearbox at the weekend and i have a quaife atb fitted!

so nobody asked quaife YET about this serious issue ?!?

[cicastol]

so nobody asked quaife YET about this serious issue ?!?

I asked to Quaife twice but never replyed to my email asking for this issue!!
Graham at Plans told me to use the standard Vauxhall\GM oil.....
BUT i would like to know a little more ,someone else should ask to Quaife!!!
WHY they doesn't recommend the use of ATF fluids for the ATB diff??
Is possible\safe to use standard 75W 90 in the gearbox instead of the dexron III ???
I need answers to this questions!!

[minime]

i will get in contact with them on monday....as my gearbox is being repaired as we speak....and should be re fitted on tuesday

[the gits]

Quaife have confirmed that it is OK to use the Plans/ Quaife diff with the standard oil.

[minime]

i am going to get an oil cooler fitted for the gearbox think this will help geoff lowe where did you get yours from for the engine? and how much did it cost? ps...did you see an interesting manifold the other day graham thanks for the confirmation on the oils...its it the dexron III we have to use?

[cicastol]

graham thanks for the confirmation on the oils...its it the dexron III we have to use?

2 different people (race mec) told me it's better to use a high quality sint. 75W 90 for the gearbox with the LSD installed