182 replies to this topic

[siztenboots]

But until then, don't go posting on a forum about it, as if you're found to be the one lying, you're then opening yourself up to libel and potentially a counterclaim for damages.

If thats the sort of world you want to live in go live in North Korea. Libel action for having a moan on a forum about someone....god you're whats tits up with this country

Oh how very good of you, do you actually understand what libel and slander are? Yes, very good they're a british law.

No-where have i said people can't post the facts about a company, but it seems silly to come on here lambasting XYZ without talking to them about it, or if they're being useless, take them to small claims. After all if you've got irrefutable evidence, you'll win, won't you?

And who are we to judge fact, therefore we leave it to the courts.
If you've not got the bollocks to take it to court and stand by your word, you're no more than a keyboard warrior out to cause trouble.

Now, see there, i've not resorted to personal insults have i? That's what makes the difference between a playground punch-up and a reasoned debate between adults.

Silent1, slander cannot be applied here, libel yes, slander no.

[cheeky_chops]

Clutch will be about £1800 for the full deal - lightened flywheel Paddle clutch Labour, bearing etc etc
.....
As the engine has to come out for the clutch anyway

Ah the old engine out, clutch ripoff replacement

£970 i paid for a helix group N + lightened fly, fitted at TGA by 2 ex loti/tvr guys with 30 years experience. Didnt set fire to my car either

[djegiant]

WTF would anyone ever consider blowing 12k on a little plastic shitbox in the 1st place??? Have you nothing better to do with your wealth??? Some people really do have more money than sense! John, did you honestly read this thread twice? You sad bugger.

[Silent1]

Silent1, slander cannot be applied here, libel yes, slander no.

Indeed

[cheeky_chops]

WTF would anyone ever consider blowing 12k on a little plastic shitbox in the 1st place??? Have you nothing better to do with your wealth??

If he wants to send it to the moon, its his money/decision.

I can imagine the phone call with NASA "yea yea, your the 5th VX we have put on the moon....."

[carl1977]

Sounds like both parties need there heads banging together, sounds like theres faults on both sides, everyones human and no ones perfect! Surely this could be resolved amicably without involving giving cash to the money grabbing solicitors pointlessly?? As for other peoples experences, these are all in the past, and im sure by now they have been resolved one way or another so shouldnt be used to fling dirt either way. If the 2 people cant resolve this though talking man to man, then possibly communicate through an independent party to come to an amicable solution. Mudslinging ect is childish, everyone should be adult about the situation. These kind of things really bring out the worst in people, and a public forum is not the place to get it sorted, will only make things worse

[djegiant]

If he wants to send it to the moon, its his money/decision.

Agreed, but it's the thought process that leads to the decision that baffles me.

If you have the pennies that allow you to justify spending that 12k then why not just go out and buy a decent car in the 1st place.?

Anyway, this is a different topic for another day. Please continue with the mud slinging.

[Thorney]

Let me be clear, I think we let Andrew down on a variety of areas on his car but to my mind we dealt with them very well and he has been generously compensated for those delays, we and COurtenay confirm that so little had to be done to finish it so why suddenly decry all the work that had been done over the last 12 months - doesn't made sense and it certainly isn't right. I'd still like to sort it amicably but if we've come to far then so be it.

As for the Thorney bashers, the comment from Paul is the most indicative:

This was meant to be a independent forum for VX enthusiasts to share info. Thats why when I and a few others first bought our VX's back on 2002/3 got together on a forum on Yahoo.

A seemingly good guy called Thorney came along and said he would set up a forum because the Yahoo ones are a bit rubbish. And here we are.

Thorney has made more money from the advertising aspect of this site tham he will lose through bad mouthing so don't worry on that score. He certainly doesn't look to be on the breadline to me in more ways than one

These people only come on here to post snide comments when they see the opportunity to have a pop at me personally. This has nothing to do with quality of work or TMS it has to do with the fact that they are unhappy that I seem to have created a company and to their mind used (abused) this forum to do it and they don't like that.

For the record (I've said this before) I actually created this site before I even owned my VXT, I set it up because the Yahoo forum was crap and everyone complained about it and wanted more. I set the site up with my own money, paid for its operation from my own money and never once asked for money in return. I personally bankrolled the first meets (which lost money, so I personally lost money), got up at 4am to set up cones for the track days when these so called 'old guard' were still in bed, developed the first tuning parts, liased with Vauxhall on members behalf on more than three dozen issues that all got resolved with the member happy and for what? Nothing but the good feeling it generated and the knowledge that I'd helped a fellow member. And all this two years before TMS existed as a tuning firm.

I created TMS by selling my house and financing the company from scratch, I worked (and still do) my tits off with 70 hour weeks creating a VX220 tuning market that never existed before and I've continued to grow the company whilst still developing the VX220 and yet these 'Thorney Bashers' seem to think that the site is some miracle gold mine of revenue from which I build an entire company - if it wasn't so tragic it would be laughable. The VX220 is a labour of love, it represents a very small proportion of TMS work by value but I still do it beacuse I love the car so much. Interesting that half those people who do slag me off dont even own one anymore or even had any work done by us!

Andrew has some justifiable complaints which I believe we'd dealt with and his choice not to pay for the work undertaken is his choice for which we will deal with as any company does, but his thread will just get hijacked by this group of people.

Sometimes I do wonder why I carry on and then I get a PM from someone saying:

"John,

As I can read your getting alot of sh*t at the moment, I came in the other day and had fourth year enhanced service and new pads and disks all round. The service provided was top quality, and I am very pleased with the result, the car feels alot better.

Keep up the good work

Many thanks"

[Guy182]

''These people only come on here to post snide comments when they see the opportunity to have a pop at me personally'' not true really is it.. most the ''bashers'' on this thread are rather active on the forums infact.. looking back over the pages the only people who arent regular forum contributors actually seem to be the ones with 50 posts saying how this thread is out of order etc.

[Guy182]

Geez there are some right fcuking sad bitter bastards on this forum!!!

there is a little X in the top right of your screen

[Scully]

No wonder you have alot of posts when instead of just reading, you seem compelled to ways put in your 2 peneth ... In two posts instead of one.

[Jimmo]

WTF would anyone ever consider blowing 12k on a little plastic shitbox in the 1st place??? Have you nothing better to do with your wealth???

Some people really do have more money than sense!



John, did you honestly read this thread twice? You sad bugger.

At last! someone has read my fu*king mind.

I'd be expecting it to break the sound barrier.

[LazyDonkey]

These people only come on here to post snide comments when they see the opportunity to have a pop at me personally. This has nothing to do with quality of work or TMS it has to do with the fact that they are unhappy that I seem to have created a company and to their mind used (abused) this forum to do it and they don't like that.

Thorney, thorney, thorney Look at my post count, look at my activity over the past few months - i certainly dont just come on here to have a dig at you. I love this site, i love this stupid wee car and there isn't an owner in scotland who hasnt' driven my car or had the benefit (??) of my wisdom before buying. Yes i think this place had changed, probably for the worse, but its not going to stop me posting here.

My comments are not a personal dig, merely trying to add some balance to the argument. You are trying to paint a picture of one loan customer with a grievance but it is clear to me that Andrew's situation is far from a one off. Yes there may be many many happy customers when it comes to regular servicing but it is clear that that higher end products have or have had some issues. I wish you the best of success in your business but i cna't help but think you do yourself no favours by being so aggressive and making everything so personal. Likewise if you state something that is clearly bollocks (spiggot rings are dangerous, abs units are cheap copies, higher bhp cars lift clear of the rollers, i've never locked a thread) then i will challenge that. I would do the same to anyone else on here.

It must be hard separating the forum and yoru commercial interests but it seems to me that every post you make these days is designed to make you more money, and that i think is the saddest part. ill say no more and we can hopefully get back to the real reason for this post.

[vxr36]

The rad went when the car was having its MOT at the MOT station.....a fact you well know, but of course thats our fault too. The engine mounts are a common failure especially on acar of your mileage and the fact you run AO48 tyres year round, must be nice to blame us for everything....I'm sure the weather is our fault too? The point is you knew that all we needed to do was do the injectors and the map and you decided to avoid the last invoice by taking it somehwere else and suggesting that the work was crap, when that didn't happen and all they did was confirm what I'd told you then you decide to blame us anyway. At all times the power gains were referred to what we had proven on our race car - 330bhp running on only 15psi of boost, as the turbo is rated to 35psi we estimated 360bhp was easily achieveable (indeed the turbo is rated to 400bhp). But you know all this and are no doubt enjoying the publicity this is generating for you. We will look bad out of this but not because of so called bad work but the fact I dont hide anything and I'd rather air the issues than hide them.

If all it needs is a remap and injectors then why has it taken 12 months to do? You are not fooling anyone here but yourself, John. The facts are that 360 will not be sustainable with the 2.5 inch Miltek exhaust and some of the sensors will be maxed out or off the map. The snags on the car EVERY time that I visited you (despite them being subsequently fixed) were not acceptable. I lost confidence and that is why I went for a second and third opinion. I have listened to what Jon has said. The turbo did not had the oil restrictor in (which, for your information, is why my eyes were watering from the oil fumes when the window was down). Stefan's report of the map was scathing to say the least and I came to the conclusion that even if you had another twelve months to do 'just the remap and injectors', you nor Superchips would be able to do it. Come on John, TMS had a lot of oportunity to do the job... You had the car for 5 months worth of the year.... and now you say you were only a few weeks away. Let me know if you want me to post your E-mails about how you describe you are only a few days or weeks away from completeion. I have at least 5 and a few saved voice mails. This can only get orse for you, John. The facts speak for themselves. Every time that you openly lie on this forum I will post more and more facts. I've kept everything except the phone calls.

There were several quotes and all of them as regards the turbo, manifold and final work were estimates, again a point you are fully aware. I'd have more sympathy if you actually put all the details up, not just the ones that make you feel better.

I have both the written quotes - or 'estimates' as you like to call them now even though the first Email from you is titled 'Quotation' anf the second is called 'Quote'

It was development, you knew it was development and as late at December last year (by your own post) you recognise that its pretty much done and all was needed was injectors, you can't then turn around and say its all been crap, it just doesn;t work that way. In the meantime we've done extra work on the car FOC and been given courtesy cars for free (which I never agreed in the beginning) to compensate you for the time delays, a point you just conveniently forget.

I specifically asked you not to do any development on my car (again that is in e-mail form) and one of the reasons we delayed the start of the mod by 6 months. Aghain the car has been 'pretty much done' for the whole of last year but it was never finished, was it? Too right that I received coutesey cars - You had the car for 5 months! How can I forget? I have not driven my car for a large proportion of 2007 but I have had to continue paying for my insurance tax etc and drive around in inferior courtesay cars. (and yes even the Vectra VXR is inferior in my view). If you call that compensation then will have to agree to disagree.

[skott vxt]

Come on guys meet up sort it out man to man on THE JEREMY KYLE SHOW .

[MIKE_VX]

not true really is it.. most the ''bashers'' on this thread are rather active on the forums
infact.. looking back over the pages the only people who arent regular forum contributors actually seem to be the ones with 50 posts saying how this thread is out of order etc.

Yes, but I can hardly recall a post from you over the past few months relating to anything remotely technical that doesn't include some sort of snide dig at TMS.

Fair enough, you received some poor service about a year ago, but to be still going on about it on a pretty much daily basis makes me feel that you must have very little of interest going on in your life.......pathetic IMHO

[vxr36]

Let me be clear, I think we let Andrew down on a variety of areas on his car but to my mind we dealt with them very well and he has been generously compensated for those delays, we and COurtenay confirm that so little had to be done to finish it so why suddenly decry all the work that had been done over the last 12 months - doesn't made sense and it certainly isn't right. I'd still like to sort it amicably but if we've come to far then so be it.

WHAT? You have fixed snags (which you have created), you have lent me a courtesy car for most of the time you had the car (but not all). This is not compensation (geberous or otherwise). I have received ABSOLUTELY NO COMPENSATION to date.

John, I realised after you were taking so long to get anywhere that you did not have the skills you said you had when you were trying to secure my business. You were actually developing the product on my car. All the rolling roads and road tests confirmed that. But I specifically asked you not to do that at the start of the exercise. You told me most of the way through 2006 and 2007 that you would first do the work on your race car.

Have you actually got a stage5 car with 360BHP (that I asked for) in existence today?

'Just a remap and an injector rail' is easy to say. Again i say, if it was easy to do why didn't you do it in all the time you had the car, especially if the race car already had it?

Bullshit, Bullshit and more bullshit. You have no idea how far I am prepared to take this and I am more and more determined to see justice every day this debacle continues.

[denno]

Nobody is going to win out of this one.

We'll see. I am so upset by this whole thing that I am fully prepared to go all the way. I have been subservient for far too long. You have really gone too far this time John.

You have been without your car for the best part of a year and had all this stress,hassle and not to mention expense and Thorneys reputation is being dragged through the mud.Nobody is the winner whetever the outcome of this charade.

[Thorney]

Stefan's report of the map was scathing to say the least and I came to the conclusion that even if you had another twelve months to do 'just the remap and injectors'

No point going through the rest of the inaccuracys but I'll pick up on this one, which you refer to in your last post on the development work.

You KNEW, ie we spoke about it and you understood, that the injectors had not arrived but you wanted the car back anyway (against our advice). We said we put a simple stage 4 map on it but larger injectors would be needed, indeed you even state that you understood all that, you had a temporary map that you knew needed bigger injectors for us to finish, the fact Stefan was scathing of it is hardly surprising. But then its not is it, you told Jon that it was a finished product, that you'd paid for all of it and basically lied to everyone as to the history and current status of the job, the facts have a habit of coming round to bite you.

Anyway, its clear that we aren't going to resolve this, I will leave any further direct communcation between us to the legal process.

Lazy Donkey.....I wasn't referring to you in any way, whilst I think you've been a little harsh (especially on the manifold issue, when I've now explained what happened, ask Dario) nothing you have said puts you in the group of people who just enjoy this with no relevance to facts.

[Jase_MK]

Likewise if you state something that is clearly bollocks (spiggot rings are dangerous, abs units are cheap copies, higher bhp cars lift clear of the rollers, i've never locked a thread) then i will challenge that. I would do the same to anyone else on here.

There's no point LD. I gave up on that a while back after having blatant lies publicly spouted directly at me, quickly followed by a threadlock.

@ this thread. Nothing ever changes. This'll happen again and again.

Feel terrible for you Andrew, hope after all this you get a car you're pleased with and that you can enjoy it.