82 replies to this topic

[JohnTurbo]

You're not wrong!

New vs Old.




I'm thinking of going for this location. I spent a good while looking at the wall of the boot, but its not going to wash.
This location involves relocation of some random egr solenoid deely, but otherwise fits the bill. In case you cant tell, this is the front of the O/S rear wheelarch.

[The Batman]

What is the speed of the pump?

[JohnTurbo]

Its similar open flow to the Bosch one @25L/min - but it has more than double the head rating, so it should flow much more water under load. Should have it rigged up tomorrow to see.

[cnrandall]

You'll find 25lpm will hardly touch the sides although it will certainly be an improvement to the previous pump.

[mbes2]

John, how goes this project ?

[Steelic]

Any news?

[JohnTurbo]

Yes - I had kind of abandoned this thread - but not 100% ceased work on this.

The above graph was with the bigger pump. This was on the same 4th gear drag from 3k revs to speed x. The peak temp reached was the same at 50 degrees, but the recovery was much faster than with the smaller pump.

That said, I now have the smaller pump fitted. - The reason is that the pipe path did not allow the big pump to self prime.

Actually I bought a STOCK IC to benchmark against, as there is not a lot of figures out there by which I can decide how effective my new system is, for that reason I was very interested to read this earlier today in the VX Perf. IC thread:-

I can only confirm what CS_ mentionned, this IC is the best tested here in France (never tested the MMG, though). It is a pain to fit (it takes the whole room available) also.
But on track, even with 240BHP, you'll reach IAT>85°C as soon as the external temp is over 20°C. Even on Autobahn, when pushing from 50 to 140 mph, you could reach IAT over 60°C.
We tested extensively on track various ICs, settings (mean, different ducting / hole in wheel arch, etc.) and mapping. The only solution we found to stay under 55°C on track is the PA CC. This was also confirmed by Uwe Regelin, the boss of VX Perf, when I discussed with him.

- Interested because other than that I'm at 262, the situation above is very familiar. Heat is a bit of an issue on track, I've not logged it but the IAT, I imagine, is in the range mentioned above, but also with the stock rad obstructed by the Pre-rad my engine coolant will go past 100degrees after a 20min session.
The thing is my driving has improved with practice, and on track I lust for more power, but I don't think my current setup is quite ideal for sustained drags of 300bhp. It either needs tweaking, including the use of a bigger engine coolant rad, or swapping out for the PA. - That would seem like a cop-out!

I probably won't botter slotting the stock IC back in now, as its a lot of work for what I'm sure would be a little pat on the back that i'm running better than standard.

[ultimate]

Can you tell me the diameter of the hole were the tmap sensor gets in the pipe?

[chrisgold]

http://www.chargecoo...products_id=203

[JohnTurbo]

Bit of a slow reply, but the hole is 12mm.

@Chris - AVT chargecoolers are no better than what I have, and 4x more expensive. There is a thread on here somewhere where someone tried it and the results were very disappointing.

So I have been playing again today.

This is the entry to the STOCK IC:-



This is the entry to a stock IC after an hours work:-



It still looks tight. - That said compared to air flowing at atmospheric pressure, my car runs at say a "bar of boost". The mass flow rate of the tubing will be approximately double, but the volumetric flow rate would be about the same. This is quite a nice side product of the turbo. - You get more air and fuel in the cylinder, sure, but you also get more air through the same diameter of pipework. -This is different to the exhaust side, where as little back pressure as possible will give the turbo more 'oomf'.
....So I figure Its worth a go. The TMS CC runs after the stock IC, and I will do the same.

I've also noted Simon and Duncan are making a really nice job of the same layout, only for a much higher power than I'm after.

So, looking at the picture below:-
* Stock IC with enlarged entry is refitted with all correct ducting, and foam to fill the gap between IC and clam.
* My neat little CC core fits nicely in-line between the tophat and the stock IC.
* The water plumbs in fine, and I've trial-fitted the wheel arch liner and it doesn't foul.

Jobs to do:-
* Mod the CC outlet to take the TMAP sensor. 12mm hole!! ;-)
- Otherwise the intelt temperature would be wrong and thus the fueling and advance.
* Extend the TMAP sensor wiring so it will reach.
* Chop the IC -> Tophat hose and fit it to the CC exit.
* Device some way of securely strapping the CC to the subframe butress/stay.

[The Batman]

Let me know when you get fed up and want a pro alloy cc

[JohnTurbo]

Well finally got back from China and was able to try this.

Didnt quite reach the same terminal velocity as normal on my usual 4th gear drag from ~3krevs. Normally I get about 8-10 seconds of acceleration in, this time more like 6, but nonetheless It looks like the temperature would get to about 28 degrees!! Seems very effective!

[MrSimba]

Looking good John

[The Batman]

Curios to know what are total costs and time spent?

Edited by joe_589, 30 September 2012 - 07:31 PM.

[JohnTurbo]

Loads of time, but not much cost.

Spends:-
£100 Stainless header tank, pre-rad, heat exchanger, pump
£61 Tubing (£20+£23+£18)
£10 Assorted clips
£10 Copper pipe elbows
£35 Welding
£12 Coolant
£110 new core
£5 old ally elbow and bit of samco off a mate
£60 new pump
-£40 sold new pump.

Total £363

[The Batman]

Bargain!

[JohnTurbo]

I'm tossing a coin to decide if you are being sarcastic or not Joe! Simon, thanks. Tis for nought compared to your new setup!

[MrSimba]

All along the same lines John My set up with the IC & CC in series the same as yours works very well indeed

[slindborg]

Just an utter doodah to do the engine mount

[MrSimba]

Just an utter doodah to do the engine mount

Or take the top cam cover off when you need to change the rocker cover gasket... !

Though with Vibratechnics side mounts in now they should be 'ok' for a while!!!

One thing DG did though John was add a 'T' after the CC for the recirc, this was the most direct route to the Turbo and we hope will work really well, certainly the fit & pipework are the shortest routing possible & all go very nicely





Still have only 'just' forgiven DG for buying the recirc in black & not polished tho........

Edited by MrSimba, 30 September 2012 - 09:19 PM.