95 replies to this topic

[speedster]

 

Just read all this (Incuding techies sandy posts).  Why can we not fabricate a manifold and mount a turbo low down?  Yes, I know, laaaag.  But it'd fit in the space.  You'd need a scavenger pump for the oil system but I've seen worse systems that have worked.  Personally I'll be sticking SC but it can be done in the space available.

Maybe we could get someone like afi to engineer a prototype... they clearly are in that space and work with custom builds.  

  But what's the point really?? To avoid losing a couple inches of boot space??   If you want a turbo Ecotec, there are loads of options from OEM to aftermarket, all ready to fit with various levels of compatibility...

Pick me a compatible kit giving 400 horses please.

[Rosssco]

 

Just read all this (Incuding techies sandy posts).  Why can we not fabricate a manifold and mount a turbo low down?  Yes, I know, laaaag.  But it'd fit in the space.  You'd need a scavenger pump for the oil system but I've seen worse systems that have worked.  Personally I'll be sticking SC but it can be done in the space available.

Maybe we could get someone like afi to engineer a prototype... they clearly are in that space and work with custom builds.  

  But what's the point really?? To avoid losing a couple inches of boot space??   If you want a turbo Ecotec, there are loads of options from OEM to aftermarket, all ready to fit with various levels of compatibility...

Pick me a compatible kit giving 400 horses please.

There are the ZZP kits that I linked to previously, or choose the twin scroll LNF (K04) and upgrade the compressor side for something large (search for K04+) which should give you around that figure (if your chasing numbers).. But if your after an off-the-shelf kit with no clam mods, your goosed due to lack of space..

[FLD]

I think people like the reversibility of a non-clam cutting option.  Why not start by seeing where a turbo could fit and how much effort it would be to get the plumbing there.

[speedster]

 

Just read all this (Incuding techies sandy posts).  Why can we not fabricate a manifold and mount a turbo low down?  Yes, I know, laaaag.  But it'd fit in the space.  You'd need a scavenger pump for the oil system but I've seen worse systems that have worked.  Personally I'll be sticking SC but it can be done in the space available.

Maybe we could get someone like afi to engineer a prototype... they clearly are in that space and work with custom builds.  

  But what's the point really?? To avoid losing a couple inches of boot space??   If you want a turbo Ecotec, there are loads of options from OEM to aftermarket, all ready to fit with various levels of compatibility...

Pick me a compatible kit giving 400 horses please.

There are the ZZP kits that I linked to previously, or choose the twin scroll LNF (K04) and upgrade the compressor side for something large (search for K04+) which should give you around that figure (if your chasing numbers).. But if your after an off-the-shelf kit with no clam mods, your goosed due to lack of space..

I know there is no off the shelf kit and people usually blend to get what they want. Be nice to find somebody with an off the shelf kit with proven high performance.... lets ask around!

[speedster]

I think people like the reversibility of a non-clam cutting option.  Why not start by seeing where a turbo could fit and how much effort it would be to get the plumbing there.

to prevent increased lag the turbo needs to be close to the exhaust ports. Meaning there is only one place you're going to want it. Between the exhaust ports and the rear frame... or in that general vicinity:p Give someone like AFI the dimensions and see what gets coughed up.. A ceramic coated manifold with a nice dual spool turbo hopefully

[Exmantaa]

Do you think the LSJ ECU set-up with HP Tuners can do turbo boost control via the standard boost solenoid, or would a seperate controller be required?

 

Yes it can. Only have to look into that again, as I switched everything torque/boost control related off for max power.   

[Exmantaa]

Something like this: Turbo low enough to fit under the NA clam, but still high enough for the oil return hose.

Cold side to gearbox (cables...), but some fabbing and relocation of components involved.

This is a 2mm stainless welded manifold, but already read reviews about cracks... (the welding quality was pretty poor)

 

 

400 hp (reliable!) is quite a task, even with a turbo. (think big/lag) And cracking Ecotec liners will be an issue... 

[FLD]

Blimey, thats a nice pice of tetris work!  What had to be moved?

[speedster]

Something like this: Turbo low enough to fit under the NA clam, but still high enough for the oil return hose.
Cold side to gearbox (cables...), but some fabbing and relocation of components involved.
This is a 2mm stainless welded manifold, but already read reviews about cracks... (the welding quality was pretty poor)
 

 
400 hp (reliable!) is quite a task, even with a turbo. (think big/lag) And cracking Ecotec liners will be an issue... 

GM ecotec build book says it should be OK... maybe that's just theory

The ECOTECs outstanding feature to performance enthusiasts is its impressive strength. GM Racing dynamometer tests confirm that major horsepower gains are possible with minimal modifications. For instance, when building an ECOTEC engine to the 400 hp power level, no modifications to the cylinder head, block, main girdle or crankshaft are required.

[siztenboots]

or fit the Saab B204/205 , where the turbo is on the other side of the engine , same layout as the Z20LET , gearbox pattern = F23 bomb proof engine to 600bhp as all forged internals http://www.serioussa...2x4tribute.html

[speedster]

OK. Great suggestions. However I have a forged low compression Z22SE engine with a SAAB head and SAAB turbo cams.... waiting to go in. I need a robust DIY solution.

[speedster]

Something like this: Turbo low enough to fit under the NA clam, but still high enough for the oil return hose.

Cold side to gearbox (cables...), but some fabbing and relocation of components involved.

This is a 2mm stainless welded manifold, but already read reviews about cracks... (the welding quality was pretty poor)

 

 

400 hp (reliable!) is quite a task, even with a turbo. (think big/lag) And cracking Ecotec liners will be an issue... 

 

Do you know this car Exmantaa?

[Exmantaa]

Yes, German car. Think it was running 371Ps.

But... That is a welded manifold which will cost you €950...

And doing some more research on those I read stories of bad welding (really bad!) and cracking manifolds... :-/

 

Not good, so investigating other options which will have OEM reliability. (hint...)

 

 

Edited by Exmantaa, 06 November 2014 - 11:04 PM.

[Rosssco]

 

 

Not good, so investigating other options which will have OEM reliability. (hint...)

 

 

 

Have you considered some of the compressor side upgrades the Yanks are using? There's one I seen recently called "FTW-K04R" which seems a cheap upgrade consisting of a larger compressor wheel and ported housing, which (going by slightly odd 'whp' figures) was perhaps pushing 350-400bhp..

 

http://turbobayperfo...olstice-upgrade

[Exmantaa]

Yes, that is one of them. But you should do something on the turbine side to get it flowing more with less boost. Don't think we need a torque monster with a 5,5K cut-off in a VX (gearbox swap...), but more something that has a wide and even torque spread and can rev to 7K or so...

ZZP replacement ZFR turbo (still dual scroll spool-up) is good for some 450HP, but a bit bulky...

 

I very much like the idea that you can use all the OEM oil & water connections for this turbo set-up on our Ecotec blocks. No re-inventing the wheel.   

 

We'll see. Can alway fit this to the spare A20NHH engine that hides in my garage .  

[Rosssco]

Yes, that is one of them. But you should do something on the turbine side to get it flowing more with less boost. Don't think we need a torque monster with a 5,5K cut-off in a VX (gearbox swap...), but more something that has a wide and even torque spread and can rev to 7K or so...

ZZP replacement ZFR turbo (still dual scroll spool-up) is good for some 450HP, but a bit bulky...

 

I very much like the idea that you can use all the OEM oil & water connections for this turbo set-up on our Ecotec blocks. No re-inventing the wheel.   

 

We'll see. Can alway fit this to the spare A20NHH engine that hides in my garage .  

 

A20NHH... Hmmm, been looking at those - the only real issue seems to be the ECU, although I think the best option is to import a LNF ECU and loom, but have it modified to run "standalone" which I believe a couple of places in the US can do, and use HP Tuners as a calibration tool..

 

Would be a good equivalent (but lighter) option to the crazy TFSI engine swap(s)..

[Exmantaa]

Yes, the LNF ecu normally needs the corresponding BCM computer to work with, but some places provide a stand-alone solution. (I have such an LNF/LHU Delphi ecu that is supposed to work stand alone... And HP Tuners..  )  

 

But Di engines come with their own set of problems. Small injection window due to DI, so limited max power. Coaking up the inlet valves is also a big issue on the DI engines... And tuning/calibrating these engines with variable valve tiiming is quite an art.   

 

[Rosssco]

Knew you'd be 2-steps a head of us on this..

 

I see ZZP sell cams with (I presume) larger DI fuel pump lobes for increased DI fuel pump pressure, and also (slightly) large capacity injectors..

 

Does the VVT control aspect not work in a sort of 'closed-loop' function where a standard algorithm with continually vary the cams to acheive the best desired valve position / dynamic CR based on the require engine load?

 

That engine config would be a lovely option - irony that the NA would have a better turbo engine than the VX turbo itself..

[speedster]

Yes, German car. Think it was running 371Ps. But... That is a welded manifold which will cost you 950... And doing some more research on those I read stories of bad welding (really bad!) and cracking manifolds... :-/   Not good, so investigating other options which will have OEM reliability. (hint...)    

Are there any more details on the work done? IMO A cast manifold is a must at 400bhp. But at least it could give us some dimension and physical placement reference data

Edited by speedster, 07 November 2014 - 04:25 PM.

[Exmantaa]

 

Yes, German car. Think it was running 371Ps. But... That is a welded manifold which will cost you 950... And doing some more research on those I read stories of bad welding (really bad!) and cracking manifolds... :-/   Not good, so investigating other options which will have OEM reliability. (hint...)    

Are there any more details on the work done? IMO A cast manifold is a must at 400bhp. But at least it could give us some dimension and physical placement reference data

 

 

In German:

 

Auf dem Bild ist der Krümmer für 950,- €, die Wandstärke der Rohre ist 2 mm.

 

Wenn Du 350 - 370 PS  erreichen möchtest ist das "High-Power" aber es ist mit diesem Krümmer möglich, du musst dann halt auch andere Dinge noch verbauen wie Sportluftfilter, dickes Ansaugrohr, eventuell externes Wastegate, einen besseren Ansaugtrackt, einen grossen LLK, am besten ein wassergekühltes System und eine mind. 73er Auspuffanlage mit großem Metallkat, sonst wird das nicht klappen. Das ist alles so verbaut in dem Speedster mit 370 PS. Natürlich auch Schmiedekolben mit Verdichtungsreduktion, Stahlpleuel und evtl. auch Kopfbearbeitung

 

 

So: this manifold with some kind of GT28R turbo, filter with big intake tube, possible external wastegate, big intercooler, preferably watercooled. At least a 3" exhaust system with a good flowing metalcat/catless. And off course forged engine internals with less compression and possible cams + headwork.