121 replies to this topic

[cicastol]

Great guide!!! Thanks you very much for this vital info, hope that someone put this guide in DIY section for the future!! Now some question about installation,for the pressure sensor setup,the sensor number in-out is 1 1 ?? Throttle sensor output voltage is with the arrow upward or downward(0v closed or 0v fully open)?? Where you connected to the ECU ground?? Thanks a lot!!

[speedster]

Your welcome

For the pressure sensor setup,the sensor number in-out is 1 1 ??

From my research either 4 4 or 5 5 is a good setup for the Ecotec. I am using 5 5.

Throttle sensor output voltage is with the arrow upward or downward(0v closed or 0v fully open)??

Upward pointing.

Where you connected to the ECU ground??

You will see a black ground cable connected to one of the ECU mounting points (top left). This is the ground to use

Remember to configure your knock sensor when the car is at running temperature. Once you complete this the error code thrown by the ECU should disappear.

Read the note about the setting the throttle travelling automatically, i.e. 10 seconds at 0% and 10 seconds at 100%.

Let me know how you get on

Edited by speedster, 02 November 2005 - 02:07 PM.

[cicastol]

Your welcome

Let me know how you get on 

Sure!!
Another little question,where did you connected the knocking sensor??
I've seen that from the connector of the knocking sensor(placed under the intake manif.) there are 2 wire,1green and 1 red,wich one you connected??

P.S. Hope that 5 5 works well because i've seen on installation manual other 20 pressure type sensor number
Probably the best is to send an email to apexi to know wich number is the best, informing apexi with the sensor type and manufacturer of our vx220.

Edited by cicastol, 02 November 2005 - 04:19 PM.

[speedster]

Another little question,where did you connected the knocking sensor??
I've seen that from the connector of the knocking sensor(placed under the intake manif.) there are 2 wire,1green and 1 red,wich one you connected??

AFAIK the knock sensor is a one wire only sensor and is located on the exhaust manifold side of the engine, coolant reservoir side. If I am wrong wonder what I have connected to?

Edited by speedster, 02 November 2005 - 04:16 PM.

[cicastol]

AFAIK the knock sensor is a one wire only sensor and is located on the exhaust manifold side of the engine, coolant reservoir side. If I am wrong wonder what I have connected to?

I'm sure of the knocking sensor because it is listed on my TIS2000 cd(with wiring diagram missing...) on the na is located under the intake manif. and fixed aginst block,it has 2 wire,white red and after a connector they become green and red!!

[speedster]

I'm sure of the knocking sensor because it is listed on my TIS2000 cd(with wiring diagram missing...) on the na is located under the intake manif. and fixed aginst block,it has 2 wire,white red and after a connector they become green and red!!

OK, I will have to check it out.

[cicastol]

I'm sure of the knocking sensor because it is listed on my TIS2000 cd(with wiring diagram missing...) on the na is located under the intake manif. and fixed aginst block,it has 2 wire,white red and after a connector they become green and red!!

OK, I will have to check it out.

Now i looked your's photo,probably you attached to the wire of the ignition noise suppressor,it looks like a transistor in a TO 220 package
Kocking sensor looks like this:
http://www.bosch-mot...ensors/KS-R.pdf

with standard manifold is really hard to see it,you need to remove the undertray to get access

P.S.probably is not a good idea to connect the knocking sensor,because the long wire you need to connect to the safc2 can pick up EMC and noise so could trigger in the ECU a false knock detection,probably need to use at least a shielded cable if you want to connect it!

[speedster]

Now i looked your's photo,probably you attached to the wire of  the ignition noise suppressor,it looks like a transistor in a TO 220 package
Kocking sensor looks like this:
http://www.bosch-mot...ensors/KS-R.pdf

with standard manifold is really hard to see it,you need to remove the undertray to get access

P.S.probably is not a good idea to connect the knocking sensor,because the long wire you need to connect to the safc2 can pick up EMC and noise so could trigger in the ECU a false knock detection,probably need to use at least a shielded cable if you want to connect it!

you are 100% correct cicastol. My SAFC-2 is currently fully suppressed The shielded cable is a good idea. I will have a look at cable access tomorrow and the decide whether or not to connect it. When are you installing the SAFC-2?

Edited by speedster, 02 November 2005 - 09:09 PM.

[cicastol]

When are you installing the SAFC-2?

Probably during this weekend,now we must search for the correct sensor number(i've seen on J-body too many variations,4-4, 5-5,4-0 ecc. )our MAP is a standard 1bar sensor from Delco now i would like to know what is the japan car listed in the manual that use this sensor!!
Also i'm think that the ground of the ECU is not that,probaly the good one is in the connector,this can cause ground loop if not connected properly as stated in the manual i will make further investigation

[speedster]

our MAP is a standard 1bar sensor from Delco now i would like to know what is the japan car listed in the manual that use this sensor!!

I reckon the green wire is the sensor output.

Edited by speedster, 02 November 2005 - 10:53 PM.

[speedster]

From the guys on j-body........

MAP is 1 bar which is a vacum reading and is calabrated in the PCM (ECU) so that 30 inches of mercury would pull a 0V and 5V would be 0 inches of mercury.
On a 2 bar the calabration would be 0V at 30 inches mercury and 2.5V at 0 inches mercury and 5V at 14.7 Boost (PSI).
Every bar added creates a sensor that will read 14.7 psi more.
Ecotec MAP 3 wires are: ground, 5 Volt, and reference.

The green cable on our MAP Sensor has a varying output voltage 0-5v, this is the reference, the MAP Sensor's output to the ECU.

Edited by speedster, 03 November 2005 - 09:02 PM.

[speedster]

In trying to determine the Sensor Number for the SAFC-2 configuration I came across this useful voltage to pressure chart. Hopefully it is correct. Chart is used to configure TTS Datamaster software allowing you to counter actual errors in the MAP readout.

Attached Files

•  Map_Matrix.jpg   115.29KB   0 downloads

Edited by speedster, 06 November 2005 - 08:04 PM.

[speedster]

The SAFC-2 displays pressure values in mmHg, millimeters of mercury. In order to use the matrix above which uses kiloPascals you need the following formula

Attached Files

•  PressureConvkPatommHg.jpg   4.99KB   0 downloads

Edited by speedster, 06 November 2005 - 08:05 PM.

[speedster]

Here is a corrected install guide. If one of the Moderators could delete the previous one it might save some confusion

Attached Files

•  safc_2.jpg   105.8KB   1 downloads

[cicastol]

In trying to determine the Sensor Number for the SAFC-2 configuration

I've not yet mounted the safc,instead i've mounted a rear CF wing this weekend
For me the only hope to know the correct safc number for the GM-Delco 1 bar MAP sensor is to send an e-mail to Apexi,but i could'nt find any email on their website... or find a japan car equipped with a similar or the same MAP sensor listed in the installation manual..!!

[speedster]

For me the only hope to know the correct safc number for the GM-Delco 1 bar MAP sensor is to send an e-mail to Apexi,but i could'nt find any email on their website... or find a japan car equipped with a similar or the same MAP sensor listed in the installation manual..!!

Hi cicastol. Yes, it would be nice to get it from Apexi themselves. At this stage I still don't understand what the actually setting does or is for People running Ecotecs with an SAFC-2 in the US are using 5 in 5 out but I am not sure if this is correct for our set-up. The wiring on their ECU's appears to be very different to ours, which helps me think we do have a different set-up

[eliseadam]

couple of questions! is there any wiring for these units for the z20let turbo engines? wouldnt mind having a play. Also been looking at fitting 1 of the boost controller units they do at the same time.. nice winter wiring project i thought would it kill me car though? Thorney? stage 3 .. (new clutch to be looked at next also... as mines slipping already...) Adam

[speedster]

is there any wiring for these units for the z20let turbo engines? wouldnt mind having a play.

It has been a DIY process on the NA. The z20let is used in the Astra... maybe ask the people on Astra-Sport.co.uk or on MIGWeb for some pointers.

would it kill me car though?

Incorrectly installed or configured you could damage the engine. If installed and configured correctly it causes no problems.

[speedster]

Any comments. Not sure about the sensor numbers but is the concept solid?

If you have the need to run big injectors, lets say 440's buy a GM 3 bar map sensor, wire it into your computer, stick your injectors in, and the car will run perfect.
If you need to add or subtract fuel, hook an Apexi AFC in the mix, and you have fully tunable fuel, and instead of your baseline being -40, your baseline is 0.

How does it work?

Stock injectors are somewhere around 200ml. 440 injectors pump a little over twice as much fuel in all the time. Your map sensor signal strength primarily determines your injector duty cycle. Your stock map sensor is calibrated so that 4.2 volts is 0 psi. The GM 3 bar is calibrated so that 1.6 volts is 0 psi. 1.6 volts, is a little under half of 4.2 volts. What this means is that the GM sensor sends out a low ball output to the ECU, and the ecu cuts the injector duty cycle in half, making the car run perfect.
For all who are running the afc hack and want to see your fuel curve so that it isn't way off the scale, on your Apexi, goto ETC. > Sensor type, set Out to 14 and keep your input at 06. Set your -40's to 0's and your car will run just right.

The sensor number 06 is the code for the stock honda map sensor, and the sensor number 14 is the closest you'll get to the GM 3 Bar setting. Say you want to run stock injectors with a GM 3 bar map sensor, set your input to 14, and your out to 06, and the AFC will automatically convert your GM map sensor signal to a Honda Map signal, and then you can tune your fuel curve.
On my car, I'm currently running the GM 3 bar sensor, My Apexi Sensor settings are 14 input, and 14 output. This means GM in, GM out. The GM out compensates for the big injectors and sets my fuel adjustment baseline at zero. Since I'm not running a missing link device I just lean my curve under wide throttle to -7% from 3500-9000. That has worked so far with 15 lbs of boost. I'm running an FMU because I would need rediculously large injectors to run stock rail pressure on 15 lbs. of boost. The setup works great, however I do get the occassional bog between 2 and 3 grand, but I'm working on a solution to that at the moment. If you have any questions, let me know. I have spent great deals of class time researching and a great deal of time almost getting in wrecks trying to figure this apexi out.

[speedster]

This might be of interest to anybody with boost.

What is the "MAP sensor mod"?
The "MAP sensor" mod connects a manifold absolute pressure (MAP) sensor to the AFC throttle input. The goal is to make the AFC load-sensitive rather than RPM-sensitive. As the boost level increases, the AFC can deliver more fuel accordingly. For more information, see this VFAQ by Corbin Behnken.

Here is a summary of the mod:

" Lots of questions about this mod. So here is a summary.

Why? Turn the Hi/Lo throttle reference for the NE points on the SAFC into boost references and not throttle position dependent. This makes the SAFC engine load sensitive.

How? Buy 3 bar sensor GM Part # 16040749 at http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/

wire Pin A = Ground - on firewall
wire Pin B = Sensor output, cut the gray wire that previously attached the ECU's throttle position terminal, and wire the sensor output to this wire of the SAFC
wire Pin C = +5v, recommend throttle position sensor wiring harness - turn ignition on and use a multimeter to find it.

The map sensor has special 3 pin weatherpack connector, these are available from the junkyard or the wiring accessory section of any good automotive store. Get the one with pigtail wires, usually these connectors have internals alignment grooves - shave with knife to fit. Splice into your boost gauge (manifold pressure and vacuum are necessary) with a 1/4" tee and run hose to the sensor nipple.

Drive car and observe the voltage on the SAFC that the sensor makes at max boost. Let's say YOUR car makes 19psi boost and the corresponding sensor output voltage is 4.1v , take 4.1 divide by 5.0 (max sensor output) and the result is 0.82 or 82% This is your Hi Throttle NE point on your SAFC. Set the Lo Throttle similarly. I used a sensor voltage of 1.15v, which corresponds to slightly above -5 in Hg. and is usually not seen at 70mph cruise, thus 1.15/5.0 = 0.23 or 23%. The Lo Throttle NE point is now 23%. I am still working on tuning this in. I pick up some part throttle knock under light acceleration, but mash it to the floor and it works very very well. The upper rpm is better than before I did this mod.


Taken from http://members.shaw....nswers-SAFC.htm

Edited by speedster, 07 November 2005 - 04:13 PM.