62 replies to this topic

[mandarinvx]

Is it usually the rear that go? I have changed all mine except one rear which I could not get out. Its on my to do list. Hope the damage is not too bad, they appear to go without any sign.

I had to remove one of the shocks to get enough access to get to one of the bolt heads (well, I say I, I mean the garage )

What happens if you use 12.9's instead?

Different properties to 10.9s, you have to look at the shear strength

This table shows the differences and they only have axial test figures (which shows them to be much stronger) but no shear test figures

[trescoman]

I surprised you didn't see my post ages ago on this subject

LOOKY HERE

hope all goes well

[P11 COV]

I surprised you didn't see my post ages ago on this subject

LOOKY HERE

hope all goes well

I gess not!

Well the news is £550 for parts and labour (new hub and associaited bits). Add 350 for the cambelt and when its all done I'm looking at a nice £900 figure...then theres the body work to sort

[Winstar]

Is it usually the rear that go? I have changed all mine except one rear which I could not get out. Its on my to do list. Hope the damage is not too bad, they appear to go without any sign.

It's the rear that usually go and those that Lotus uprated to 10.9, however there has been instances of the front ones going.

What happens if you use 12.9's instead?

This is what I summerised

There have been the few well documented failures of the M10x50mm Socket Head rear hub carrier bolts, the solution that Lotus came up with was for the Elise was to use grade 10.9. However the problem with these is they are a PITA to try to get hold of and quite expensive if you do find them so some people have been fitting grade 12.9 bolts but there are a number of problems with these:

1. The material for 12.9 has a high Ultimate tensile strength, approx 1200 MPa and will begin to yield at 90% of that value so once the bolt become over stressed it will shear very quickly. But your thinking well at least the yield stress is higher that 8.8 (800 MPa UTS, 80% yield stress) however.

2. If the bolt material is stiffer than that of the joint then more of the load is taken by the bolt, to understand this you need to understand how a bolted joint works by reading this clicky, this bit is on page 5.

3.

In case of a crash, bolts are meant to snap open FIRST. otherwise will keep everything together with disastrous effects on susp mounts, ali frame etc.....

[andyroo]

Hmm. Might get Sinclaire's to swap em all on the next serivce. thanks for the info winstar your a, er, star

[Anarchy]

I imagine if you use 12.9 which are stronger (is that the correct term) but maybe more brittle, I think for example in a crash you may cause more severe damage because instead of the bolt breaking then the hub will, but so what if you have a crash insurance should sort out the damage

[VX220CRAIG]

I ordered these today just incase

http://autoimageuk.c...session*id*val*

[P11 COV]

Update:

The car is still at the garage (two weeks now) awaiting delivery of the 'hub carrier'. No definite date on delivery...could be a few days or years!

I also contacted VX customer service to see thier take on it. They said they have no record of this issue being a problem and as the car is out of warranty they will not take any resposibility even though the car is a low mileage car.

To quote "the milage dosent make any difference mechanical things break. Even if the car was sat in a garage for 3 years and didn't move they wouldn't pay for any repairs if it was out of warranty."

I wouldn't have though it unreasonable to beable to drive a car without the worry of bolts snapping for no reason and wheels becoming detatched from the suspension...even if it was 10 years old and had done 100,000 miles.

Please see my new thread and see if you can help me with this issue.

http://www.vx220.org...showtopic=58581

[luna_s]

sorry to hear about this, no consolation but i took the hub carrier bolts out of my 89k miler vx220 na and the bolts were factory fresh - no damage or bending

[c18gmr]

Update:

The car is still at the garage (two weeks now) awaiting delivery of the 'hub carrier'. No definite date on delivery...could be a few days or years!

I also contacted VX customer service to see thier take on it. They said they have no record of this issue being a problem and as the car is out of warranty they will not take any resposibility even though the car is a low mileage car.

To quote "the milage dosent make any difference mechanical things break. Even if the car was sat in a garage for 3 years and didn't move they wouldn't pay for any repairs if it was out of warranty."

I wouldn't have though it unreasonable to beable to drive a car without the worry of bolts snapping for no reason and wheels becoming detatched from the suspension...even if it was 10 years old and had done 100,000 miles.

Please see my new thread and see if you can help me with this issue.

http://www.vx220.org...showtopic=58581

Just order lotus S2 ones

Sinclaires had a spare one in so i was lucky as i was 200miles from home at the time

They say they always keep a few spare

[robfenn]

So is the consensus that we should only get 10.9 upgrades, and forget about 12.9?

[techieboy]

So is the consensus that we should only get 10.9 upgrades, and forget about 12.9?

Yep, that appears to be the case by those more experienced than me.

I'm just toying with the idea of placing an order with a supplier (looks like it maybe the same that Winstanley used for the original group-buy) so will have enough surplus for 15 complete sets of replacement 10.9 bolts, if anyone is interested?

[VIX]

sorry to hear about this, no consolation but i took the hub carrier bolts out of my 89k miler vx220 na and the bolts were factory fresh - no damage or bending

Does that indicate that they have never been removed and were properly torqued to start with?

[DEKKER]

sorry to hear about this, no consolation but i took the hub carrier bolts out of my 89k miler vx220 na and the bolts were factory fresh - no damage or bending

Does that indicate that they have never been removed and were properly torqued to start with?

This makes me feel good knowing that some VX,s are good for 89k. I was worried nine would fall apart before 20k

[two4oneuk]

My rear drivers side snapped at approx 90 MPH almost shat myself. I was 2 miles from home so mangaged to get other car and tools and tried to repair at roadside. Drilled out snapped bolts and replacet with 6mm threaded rod to get me home. CV boot was split grease everywhere. £50 for new one from Vauxhall Bolts from Vauxhall £12 each Priced hub carrier £250 ish so used heat gun and some stud extractors were used. 8 bolts from local bolt stockist £2 all in. Recommend to get them changed at next service or if you have an idea to try yourself.

[robfenn]

So is the consensus that we should only get 10.9 upgrades, and forget about 12.9?

Yep, that appears to be the case by those more experienced than me.

I'm just toying with the idea of placing an order with a supplier (looks like it maybe the same that Winstanley used for the original group-buy) so will have enough surplus for 15 complete sets of replacement 10.9 bolts, if anyone is interested?

Defo interested, i'm major paranoid about it now!

[ta-kro]

Yep, that appears to be the case by those more experienced than me.

I'm just toying with the idea of placing an order with a supplier (looks like it maybe the same that Winstanley used for the original group-buy) so will have enough surplus for 15 complete sets of replacement 10.9 bolts, if anyone is interested?

Im interested too count me in!

Edd

[techieboy]

Paranoid is the word. Especially with the R888's, Nitrons and numerous trackdays. Right. Going on Winstar's previous Group Buy, I'm just going to buy the minimum quantity of the two sizes (100 each). The cost will work out at about £7.50 for the full 8 bolt (front and rear) 10.9 stainless kit. That'll give me enough for 16 full kits (and a ferk load of excess longer bolts!). Is that okay with you guys? Unfortunately, unless I buy 300 of the shorter bolts (enough for 50 full kits) I can't get the price down to the £4.30 price point and I'm not sure I wan't to risk being stuck with 40+ surplus kits. That's all at cost and it'll need postage on top (or I can bring them to the National for anyone going there). Matt

[MrSimba]

Paranoid is the word. Especially with the R888's, Nitrons and numerous trackdays.

Right. Going on Winstar's previous Group Buy, I'm just going to buy the minimum quantity of the two sizes (100 each). The cost will work out at about £7.50 for the full 8 bolt (front and rear) 10.9 stainless kit. That'll give me enough for 16 full kits (and a ferk load of excess longer bolts!). Is that okay with you guys?

Unfortunately, unless I buy 300 of the shorter bolts (enough for 50 full kits) I can't get the price down to the £4.30 price point and I'm not sure I wan't to risk being stuck with 40+ surplus kits.

That's all at cost and it'll need postage on top (or I can bring them to the National for anyone going there).

Matt

I'll have a set from you, PM me when you want the money

1) MrSimba

[Foxy]

I wonder how many crashes have been caused by this failure? Same thing happened to Foxy_jr on his LY ...and *loads* of others.