115 replies to this topic

[wrightster]

Your all saying you choose n/a over the turbo as you prefer a n/a engine and its delivery. So why is a supercharger kit seen by these n/a pureists as a good upgrade?

If you were all proper n/a pureists you would be spending your money on a high comp high reving engine not superchargers lol

i would assume because a s/c keeps the balance of the car ie great handling and a linear power delivery?

[Winstar]

Your all saying you choose n/a over the turbo as you prefer a n/a engine and its delivery. So why is a supercharger kit seen by these n/a pureists as a good upgrade?

If you were all proper n/a pureists you would be spending your money on a high comp high reving engine not superchargers lol

Because a SC doesn't have the same effect on throttle respons as fitting a turbo a long stroke engine with an intake port design for mid range torque doesn't respond well to being tuned for high rpm.

[NickA]

I'm often accused of being a touchy git, but I cannot for the life of me see why everyone is having a go at Cat's highly sarcastic and quite observant post... I think he is right, all of you protestors probably DO drive the NA!

[Alps Pacino]

Your all saying you choose n/a over the turbo as you prefer a n/a engine and its delivery. So why is a supercharger kit seen by these n/a pureists as a good upgrade?

If you were all proper n/a pureists you would be spending your money on a high comp high reving engine not superchargers lol

2 guesses to what car you drive eh ?

I don't have a supercharger and i still love my NA. HTH

Take your 2 guess's please?

[LazyDonkey]

Take your 2 guess's please?

Guess number one : its not a VX220 NA

Guess number two : it's probably something you want to swap for a VXT. I'm guessing hothatch

[Alps Pacino]

Just to add, a vxt has a piddly little turbo and hardly suffers from turbo lag, or boost threshold issues, what i'm getting at is with the car having a small turbo the power doesnt come in with an almighty whack like it does on other big turbo big boost cars. Also a lot of it has to do with the mapping on turbo cars as to how the power is delivered

[LazyDonkey]

I'm often accused of being a touchy git, but I cannot for the life of me see why everyone is having a go at Cat's highly sarcastic and quite observant post... I think he is right, all of you protestors probably DO drive the NA!

None of the NA "supporters" have said the VXT is sh*t / inferior as far as i can tell. Merely different.

The turbot supporters dont seem to have the same "live and let live" attitude.

Tell me you prefer your car and that's fine, tell me your car is better than mine and i respond.

HTH

Edited by LazyDonkey, 18 June 2008 - 10:11 AM.

[Alps Pacino]

Take your 2 guess's please?

Guess number one : its not a VX220 NA

Guess number two : it's probably something you want to swap for a VXT. I'm guessing hothatch

Your first quote was 2 guess's to what car i drive you havent guessed at even 1 car? if your going to try and be clever at least have the balls to have a proper guess at what i'm driving lol, ps i bet you did a search of my posts didnt you lol

[LazyDonkey]

Take your 2 guess's please?

Guess number one : its not a VX220 NA

Guess number two : it's probably something you want to swap for a VXT. I'm guessing hothatch

Your first quote was 2 guess's to what car i drive you havent guessed at even 1 car? if your going to try and be clever at least have the balls to have a proper guess at what i'm driving lol, ps i bet you did a search of my posts didnt you lol

Ok then, now that i've read your second post i'd guess.....

1. 4wd Rally special Evo / Scooby / Sunny

2. RWD rice burner such as a 200SX / 300ZX

The point of the original post is that you've clearly already decided on which "camp" you stand in even if you haven't purchased your tubby yet. Which is kinda my point

[p4cks]

.

Edited by p4cks, 18 June 2008 - 10:23 AM.

[Alps Pacino]

You couldnt be more wrong lol, i dont and never have owned any of them cars. I cant stand 4wd as its just boring and in fact i actually love a proper n/a engine hence owning the car i own lol. I understand where your coming from, but i still stand by my point that your all saying you prefer n/a over turbo but then go to forced inductio anyway lol. If you were 100% pure dedicated n/a tuners you would be going down the route of a proper high reving n/a build even if it entailed an engine swap to say a k20 honda engine or the like

[Winstar]

Just to add, a vxt has a piddly little turbo and hardly suffers from turbo lag, or boost threshold issues, what i'm getting at is with the car having a small turbo the power doesnt come in with an almighty whack like it does on other big turbo big boost cars. Also a lot of it has to do with the mapping on turbo cars as to how the power is delivered

Agreed the VX uses a small low boots turbo, but any turbo car will still have more hesitaion in its throttle response that a NA or SC car, an effect thats increased by the low weight of the VX.

Edit: I don't think most us are saying we are NA to the core, bar Vocky, we just prefer the response of an NA or SC, there's a reason Lotus don't fit turbos the Exiges.

Edited by Winstar, 18 June 2008 - 10:34 AM.

[ollster]

I'm often accused of being a touchy git, but I cannot for the life of me see why everyone is having a go at Cat's highly sarcastic and quite observant post... I think he is right, all of you protestors probably DO drive the NA!

None of the NA "supporters" have said the VXT is sh*t / inferior as far as i can tell. Merely different.

The turbot supporters dont seem to have the same "live and let live" attitude.

Tell me you prefer your car and that's fine, tell me your car is better than mine and i respond.

HTH

i thought my previous post was fair enough and i own a turbo, there both good cars and can be made excelent. For the track goers the turbo needs a 2k of engine work nitrons and big brakes, the na needs 5-6k of engine work to match the turbo outright pace nitrons and big brakes. The only thing that swung it for me when shopping this time was the extra amount i would have put into an NA would have been lost if i would ever have sold it.

In reality the real limitations of these cars is the organic bit sat in the drivers seat!

Edited by ollster, 18 June 2008 - 10:33 AM.

[JG]

hovering over 'delete'...

[Alps Pacino]

Just to add, a vxt has a piddly little turbo and hardly suffers from turbo lag, or boost threshold issues, what i'm getting at is with the car having a small turbo the power doesnt come in with an almighty whack like it does on other big turbo big boost cars. Also a lot of it has to do with the mapping on turbo cars as to how the power is delivered

Agreed the VX uses a small low boots turbo, but any turbo car will still have more hesitaion in its throttle response that a NA or SC car, an effect thats increased by the low weight of the VX.

Highyly tuned n/a egines can be even worse than turbo cars as they have a power band of a few thousand rpm right at the top of the rev range, take the honda vtec for example. All it means is you have to drive each car accordingly ie dont let the vxt fall out its boost threshold, dont let the hondas drop out of vtec and dont let your n/a vx fall out of the powerband as such

[LazyDonkey]

You couldnt be more wrong lol, i dont and never have owned any of them cars. I cant stand 4wd as its just boring and in fact i actually love a proper n/a engine hence owning the car i own lol.

I understand where your coming from, but i still stand by my point that your all saying you prefer n/a over turbo but then go to forced inductio anyway lol. If you were 100% pure dedicated n/a tuners you would be going down the route of a proper high reving n/a build even if it entailed an engine swap to say a k20 honda engine or the like

Ok fair enough. I stand corrected and you have my humble apologies.

......and as i've said i'm not goign down the forced induction route as i'm happy with the power of my car. I'd also say that a vtec type honda and it's ilk are moving away from what i like about an NA power delivery but that is a personal preference.

[LazyDonkey]

For the track goers the turbo needs a 2k of engine work nitrons and big brakes, the na needs 5-6k of engine work to match the turbo outright pace nitrons and big brakes.

precisely the attitude i'm arguing against.

One of the fastest cars round knockhill at past trackdays was a 118bhp Elise S1.

An NA does not NEED engine work to be awesome and a real giant killer on track.

[Alps Pacino]

You couldnt be more wrong lol, i dont and never have owned any of them cars. I cant stand 4wd as its just boring and in fact i actually love a proper n/a engine hence owning the car i own lol.

I understand where your coming from, but i still stand by my point that your all saying you prefer n/a over turbo but then go to forced inductio anyway lol. If you were 100% pure dedicated n/a tuners you would be going down the route of a proper high reving n/a build even if it entailed an engine swap to say a k20 honda engine or the like

Ok fair enough. I stand corrected and you have my humble apologies.

......and as i've said i'm not goign down the forced induction route as i'm happy with the power of my car. I'd also say that a vtec type honda and it's ilk are moving away from what i like about an NA power delivery but that is a personal preference.

What is it you actually mean by "the power delivery of a n/a"

[Winstar]

Just to add, a vxt has a piddly little turbo and hardly suffers from turbo lag, or boost threshold issues, what i'm getting at is with the car having a small turbo the power doesnt come in with an almighty whack like it does on other big turbo big boost cars. Also a lot of it has to do with the mapping on turbo cars as to how the power is delivered

Agreed the VX uses a small low boots turbo, but any turbo car will still have more hesitaion in its throttle response that a NA or SC car, an effect thats increased by the low weight of the VX.

Highyly tuned n/a egines can be even worse than turbo cars as they have a power band of a few thousand rpm right at the top of the rev range, take the honda vtec for example. All it means is you have to drive each car accordingly ie dont let the vxt fall out its boost threshold, dont let the hondas drop out of vtec and dont let your n/a vx fall out of the powerband as such

I think your missing the point when I say throttle response I mean how the engine and car will react to adjustments in mid corner, even a highly tuned NA will respond better than a low boost turbo simply due to the inerta of the turbo and the gas dynamics.

[savvy]

odd, why does one have to be better than another? can't both be appreciated for what they are and the fact they have DIFFERENT characteristics. One thing you can't change is some people will prefer the NA and some the tubby, no matter how much you argue