115 replies to this topic

[techieboy]

I understand where your coming from, but i still stand by my point that your all saying you prefer n/a over turbo but then go to forced inductio anyway lol. If you were 100% pure dedicated n/a tuners you would be going down the route of a proper high reving n/a build even if it entailed an engine swap to say a k20 honda engine or the like

Erm, I'm not going forced induction. I'm hoping that once my mapping issues are sorted I'll have circa 210bhp (certainly 200bhp+) from my NA following Vockys old skool developments. Granted, it's not going to scream round to 9000rpm but I rejected the S2000 based on the fact I didn't want to drive everywhere at 6,000+rpm just to actually find any torque.

For the track goers the turbo needs a 2k of engine work nitrons and big brakes, the na needs 5-6k of engine work to match the turbo outright pace nitrons and big brakes.

and all of that for just over £1k

[Jameshs]

Does all this really matter, Who cares whats better. I brought what i did because i wanted to.

[NickA]

Without prejudice.

The turbot supporters dont seem to have the same "live and let live" attitude.

I apologise if you feel vxt owners look down upon NA drivers, I am sure that is certainly not the case as we all have the pleasure of driving around in a beautifully crafted vehicle.

...having read a lot of posts on this site I had come to the conclusion that a fair few NA posters were firmly in the NA camp until they were in a position to own a VXT at which point their bias took an obvious turn, which in itself would seem to indicate a few NA owners drop into the elitism that you mention, though I suspect as with Cat's post above, this is short lived and purely down to their delight of owning what on paper appears to be a faster car all things being equally standard from manufacture date.

I think Cat's original post should be accepted with the same pinch of humour as the thread which started on which colour is best..  you don't find people accusing contributers in that thread of being elitist do you!

[ollster]

For the track goers the turbo needs a 2k of engine work nitrons and big brakes, the na needs 5-6k of engine work to match the turbo outright pace nitrons and big brakes.

precisely the attitude i'm arguing against.

One of the fastest cars round knockhill at past trackdays was a 118bhp Elise S1.

An NA does not NEED engine work to be awesome and a real giant killer on track.

I bet things would be different if it was donnington for example though, but i agree the platform for the VX and elise is very good no matter what engine or badge is installed! In all varients and states of tune if correctly driven you can suprise a lot of exotica.

[LazyDonkey]

......and as i've said i'm not goign down the forced induction route as i'm happy with the power of my car. I'd also say that a vtec type honda and it's ilk are moving away from what i like about an NA power delivery but that is a personal preference.

What is it you actually mean by "the power delivery of a n/a"

I like my car because it has a nice linear torque and power curves with no big dips and no surprises. THis means on track i can short shift and not bog down or bounce it off the limiter and not have too many issues. It also gives me the ability to bap the car in a higher gear and learn the lines - then once i've learnt the lines i can play around with gear selection.

The forced induction cars and vtec like cars i've driven dont' allow this and force you to be "in the zone" - a point you made above.

[LazyDonkey]

...having read a lot of posts on this site I had come to the conclusion that a fair few NA posters were firmly in the NA camp until they were in a position to own a VXT at which point their bias took an obvious turn, which in itself would seem to indicate a few NA owners drop into the elitism that you mention, though I suspect as with Cat's post above, this is short lived and purely down to their delight of owning what on paper appears to be a faster car all things being equally standard from manufacture date.

Some of the "old school" who sadly no longer frequent this site (in part due to stupid threads like this) have gone NA - Turbo - VXR route and IIRC all viewed the middle option as the least satisfactory.

As I've said countless times before i couldn't give a toss which car people drive, however this thread neatly demonstrates that many of the new turbo owners didnt consider an NA when they were buying and also view straight line speed as all important.

WHich is absolutely fine, but it is a personal opinon and the "elite" you talk of who hang onto their NA's do somewhat object to being told that their opinon is wrong and that they have an inferior car.

EDIT : I've modded my NA - does that make me less of an elitest ?

Edited by LazyDonkey, 18 June 2008 - 10:54 AM.

[Jase_MK]

Wooooop! This place... Let's see. My NA with a humble 147 bhp was regualrly quicker round sprint courses than VXTs, VXRs and an S2 Exige on occasion (and a few 911s). Last time I attended a VX annual national event there was a sprint course setup there to find the 'fastest' VX. Who was quickest out of NAs, VXT, VXRs (on semi slicks)? Oh yeah. Me again zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz edit: On my third NA now with an opportunity to go to VXT each time.

Edited by Jase_MK, 18 June 2008 - 10:57 AM.

[Shamone]

I have a Focus ST tuned to 300 BHP and love the way the power is delivered on the road, effortless acceleration in any gear and lots of low down grunt. I dont have to rev it hard as it pulls from nothing. Did a prodrive trackday and it was fun, but felt nose heavy and too much body roll. I also have a VX NA and love the way it handles on the track and twisties, having had comments from VX turbo drivers asking 'what have you done to that, it can't be standard' to which I reply nothing. Of course when it comes to track days I keep getting hammered on tracks with long straights, only to get stuck behind the same cars in the corners (most frustrating). It is for this reason I want a SC, giving me the best of both worlds. It still won't stop people asking 'is that the turbo' to which they seem less impressed when I say no. Both cars great, just people will have their preference.

[NickA]

EDIT : I've modded my NA - does that make me less of an elitest ?

YOU were making reference to VXT drivers as elitist (you inferred they looked down on NA drivers) and not me, so I fail to grasp the logic of your edit?..

[Alps Pacino]

Wooooop! This place...

Let's see. My NA with a humble 147 bhp was regualrly quicker round sprint courses than VXTs, VXRs and an S2 Exige on occasion (and a few 911s).

Last time I attended a VX annual national event there was a sprint course setup there to find the 'fastest' VX. Who was quickest out of NAs, VXT, VXRs (on semi slicks)? Oh yeah. Me again


zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

edit: On my third NA now with an opportunity to go to VXT each time.

Could that not just be down to you being a better driver? i mean the only proper concrete test would be for the same driver to do back to back tests on the same track to find out what is actually quicker(like top gear and the stig lol).

Tbh it all comes down to what you want a car to do and what you want it for, if i wanted a pure dedicated track car i would be picking a proper xe powered 7 type kit car over any type of vx, hence why i view the turbo as a better choice over the n/a as more power equals more speed to me as i aint a pro race driver.

[LazyDonkey]

EDIT : I've modded my NA - does that make me less of an elitest ?

YOU were making reference to VXT drivers as elitist (you inferred they looked down on NA drivers) and not me, so I fail to grasp the logic of your edit?..

Sorry i mis-read your post (im reading this and playing with business objects at the same time ) i thought you had inferred that NA drivers were elitisest as this seems a natural lead from the purist type comments and the fact that the car is generally agreed to be more aligned to track work out of the box.

For the record i definately see turbo owners as an elite crowd, although they do seem to view themselves in that way. There is a massive difference

[Add954]

Ever seen a highly over poppulated duck pond and then thrown one chunk of bread in the middle. They all go nuts trying to get a bite out of that piece of bread. Its a bit like this thread really.... I've never driven a NA so wouldn't know if it was better or worse than my standard turbo, but its a vx so i don't care, its still cool in a ham sandwich type of way.......

[n1k_ns]

[Code Monkey]

who cares what other people think? If it was all that important you would have bought an Elise,

[carl1977]

Maybe im missing the point here, but they are BOTH fantastic cars, they drive a little differently, but both are compitant track day cars, both get all the attention anyone could ask for and both put a huge grin on your face whenever you get in them, or look at them out the window! You could liken them to fine wines, some are stornger, some have a more delicate taste, but both ultimatly will have the same effect! I love my NA, and id imagine id love a tubby just as much, but not more or less than the naa i have. Personally i just love vx's!

[bennyboysvuk]

I've got to this thread fairly late on, but my experiences of the two are: I had a test drive in a LY a couple of years ago and the handling and brakes etc were all great, but I was looking for a car that would do 90% of its miles on the road and for that reason I wanted serious overtaking grunt. A year later I test drove the turbo which had the overtaking grunt that I was after and had all the good bits of the NA as well. I can see how people find the NA better/easier on the track though as I think the throttle response mid-travel and mid corner is better. With the turbo, I find that when exiting a fast corner, too much throttle and the boost comes all at once and you understeer wide. Too little throttle and you know you could have exited the corner faster. Ideally, I want an NA engine producing the power and torque of the turbo.

[trescoman]

bloody 'ell how many more times is this subject going to be brought up, talk about tedious

I guess its all the newbies out there......................

[catmando]

Just got back in after been for a "Blast" nice sunny day ( rather drive than internet on days like these)Quite supprised by some of the comments Ive nothing against N/A 's they were ok for a while, and i know people are happy with them. But times move on' heres a situation Man has money to by either model . both cars similar condition , one slow(N/A), one fast(TURBO) why would you pick the slow one!!!!!!!!!!!!! So my post which was about N/A owners being over protective and having a go at Fat Arse turbos at every chance they get, expecially our brothers from over the border was justified cant see what all the "Fuss" is about Sports cars are supposed to be fast so i dont want a slow one

[ollster]

Just got back in after been for a "Blast" nice sunny day ( rather drive than internet on days like these)Quite supprised by some of the comments
Ive nothing against N/A 's they were ok for a while, and i know people are happy with them. But times move on' heres a situation
Man has money to by either model . both cars similar condition , one slow(N/A), one fast(TURBO) why would you pick the slow one!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So my post which was about N/A owners being over protective and having a go at Fat Arse turbos at every chance they get, expecially our brothers from over the border was justified
cant see what all the "Fuss" is about
Sports cars are supposed to be fast so i dont want a slow one

anyone got a big wooden spoon

Edited by ollster, 18 June 2008 - 11:58 AM.

[savvy]

Just got back in after been for a "Blast" nice sunny day ( rather drive than internet on days like these)Quite supprised by some of the comments
Ive nothing against N/A 's they were ok for a while, and i know people are happy with them. But times move on' heres a situation
Man has money to by either model . both cars similar condition , one slow(N/A), one fast(TURBO) why would you pick the slow one!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So my post which was about N/A owners being over protective and having a go at Fat Arse turbos at every chance they get, expecially our brothers from over the border was justified
cant see what all the "Fuss" is about
Sports cars are supposed to be fast so i dont want a slow one

Very constructive