83 replies to this topic

[Muncher]

That's a considerable difference. The idea that a standard TB converted car is 2 seconds a lap quicker than a Stage 2 SC car is just laughable.

But you're not taking into account brakes, tyres and most importantly the driver. All those things can easily add up timewise.

Of course but the insinuation is that all other things being equal the TB car is quicker, which is absolute rubbish. That's the only reason it was said.

[Sticky]

That's a considerable difference. The idea that a standard TB converted car is 2 seconds a lap quicker than a Stage 2 SC car is just laughable.

But you're not taking into account brakes, tyres and most importantly the driver. All those things can easily add up timewise.

Of course but the insinuation is that all other things being equal the TB car is quicker, which is absolute rubbish. That's the only reason it was said.

don't you love marketing!

[Muncher]

That's a considerable difference. The idea that a standard TB converted car is 2 seconds a lap quicker than a Stage 2 SC car is just laughable.

But you're not taking into account brakes, tyres and most importantly the driver. All those things can easily add up timewise.

Of course but the insinuation is that all other things being equal the TB car is quicker, which is absolute rubbish. That's the only reason it was said.

don't you love marketing!

Sometimes you think some companies would be better off as marketing companies rather than tuners

[techieboy]

That's a considerable difference. The idea that a standard TB converted car is 2 seconds a lap quicker than a Stage 2 SC car is just laughable.

But you're not taking into account brakes, tyres and most importantly the driver. All those things can easily add up timewise.

Was all I could do at times, to keep your car in sight at Croix when your co-driver was in full flight. Only place I seemed to gain was on the main straight and and round turn 1 onto the next short run into the left hander. Clearly that was feck all to do with him being a quicker driver and was all down to my T1R's (which were particularly bad on the final quarter of the circuit leading back to the main straight) and my missing rpm's.

[slindborg]

That's a considerable difference. The idea that a standard TB converted car is 2 seconds a lap quicker than a Stage 2 SC car is just laughable.

But you're not taking into account brakes, tyres and most importantly the driver. All those things can easily add up timewise.

Of course but the insinuation is that all other things being equal the TB car is quicker, which is absolute rubbish. That's the only reason it was said.

don't you love marketing!

Sometimes you think some companies would be better off as marketing companies rather than tuners

you mean all of them...... some are way way way way way better at marketing than you all give them credit for, and the obvious marketer isnt necessarily that one

[Sticky]

That's a considerable difference. The idea that a standard TB converted car is 2 seconds a lap quicker than a Stage 2 SC car is just laughable.

But you're not taking into account brakes, tyres and most importantly the driver. All those things can easily add up timewise.

Of course but the insinuation is that all other things being equal the TB car is quicker, which is absolute rubbish. That's the only reason it was said.

don't you love marketing!

Sometimes you think some companies would be better off as marketing companies rather than tuners

Harsh

[Sticky]

That's a considerable difference. The idea that a standard TB converted car is 2 seconds a lap quicker than a Stage 2 SC car is just laughable.

But you're not taking into account brakes, tyres and most importantly the driver. All those things can easily add up timewise.

Was all I could do at times, to keep your car in sight at Croix when your co-driver was in full flight. Only place I seemed to gain was on the main straight and and round turn 1 onto the next short run into the left hander. Clearly that was feck all to do with him being a quicker driver and was all down to my T1R's (which were particularly bad on the final quarter of the circuit leading back to the main straight) and my missing rpm's.

Absolutely, he's a rubbish driver!!!! I was slower than you if that helps, but then that's not good marketing. LOL

[fiveoclock]

Thanks for the advice, you are right, I just have to convince myself to hang on.

Also bear in mind the torque difference of a throttlebodied car, only produces ~150 lb/ft



Stage 2 supercharger conversion on the other hand produces over 225lb/ft




That's a considerable difference. The idea that a standard TB converted car is 2 seconds a lap quicker than a Stage 2 SC car is just laughable.

The graph you show with 150lb/ft is a car with just throttle bodies giving just over 160bhp, the engine in question is in the region of 215/220bhp, the torque wont be as much as an sc car but should be much higher than 150lb/ft shouldnt it?

[Winstar]

The graph you show with 150lb/ft is a car with just throttle bodies giving just over 160bhp, the engine in question is in the region of 215/220bhp, the torque wont be as much as an sc car but should be much higher than 150lb/ft shouldnt it?

that depend on what rpm that 215bhp is made at IIRC the shcick camed TB engines rev to 7500rpm which wouldn't need a high torque to make that power level.

Edited by Winstar, 08 June 2009 - 09:08 PM.

[Mike (Cliffie)]

A well supercharged car will always out perform a well throttle bodied car, that is inescapable. I say hang on for the manifold and this comes from one who is waiting for his throttle bodies to arrive. I have been out in an SC car and was astounded at the way it pulled, it certainly produces lazier power than the TB car will. If you want lazy low down grunt that pulls like a train through the revs, hang on and go SC, if you want an insane revver that you have to ride like Zorro, go TB. The engine TMS has for sale was offered at £5k last I heard which is more than you would pay to have your engine sorted with TBs.

[fiveoclock]

A well supercharged car will always out perform a well throttle bodied car, that is inescapable.

I say hang on for the manifold and this comes from one who is waiting for his throttle bodies to arrive.

I have been out in an SC car and was astounded at the way it pulled, it certainly produces lazier power than the TB car will.

If you want lazy low down grunt that pulls like a train through the revs, hang on and go SC, if you want an insane revver that you have to ride like Zorro, go TB. The engine TMS has for sale was offered at £5k last I heard which is more than you would pay to have your engine sorted with TBs.

The engine they are offering has a lot more than just TBs. Do you know where/in what circumstances it was offered for 5k?

[The Batman]

i must not have convinced you enough at abingdon i let the supercharger team down sorry folks

[fiveoclock]

i must not have convinced you enough at abingdon

i let the supercharger team down sorry folks

No far from it, you did an excellent job
Its just that Courtenays are saying they may not get the manifolds for months and months, also If you remember what you said to me about my dealings with them so far, well you were right.

Edited by fiveoclockhero, 09 June 2009 - 06:37 AM.

[Sticky]

A well supercharged car will always out perform a well throttle bodied car, that is inescapable.

I say hang on for the manifold and this comes from one who is waiting for his throttle bodies to arrive.

I have been out in an SC car and was astounded at the way it pulled, it certainly produces lazier power than the TB car will.

If you want lazy low down grunt that pulls like a train through the revs, hang on and go SC, if you want an insane revver that you have to ride like Zorro, go TB. The engine TMS has for sale was offered at £5k last I heard which is more than you would pay to have your engine sorted with TBs.

The engine they are offering has a lot more than just TBs. Do you know where/in what circumstances it was offered for 5k?

Here

http://www.vx220.org...ale-t73079.html

[fiveoclock]

A well supercharged car will always out perform a well throttle bodied car, that is inescapable.

I say hang on for the manifold and this comes from one who is waiting for his throttle bodies to arrive.

I have been out in an SC car and was astounded at the way it pulled, it certainly produces lazier power than the TB car will.

If you want lazy low down grunt that pulls like a train through the revs, hang on and go SC, if you want an insane revver that you have to ride like Zorro, go TB. The engine TMS has for sale was offered at £5k last I heard which is more than you would pay to have your engine sorted with TBs.

The engine they are offering has a lot more than just TBs. Do you know where/in what circumstances it was offered for 5k?

Here

http://www.vx220.org...ale-t73079.html

Thanks for that

[N17VES]

Thanks for the advice, you are right, I just have to convince myself to hang on.

Also bear in mind the torque difference of a throttlebodied car, only produces ~150 lb/ft



Stage 2 supercharger conversion on the other hand produces over 225lb/ft




That's a considerable difference. The idea that a standard TB converted car is 2 seconds a lap quicker than a Stage 2 SC car is just laughable.

The graph you show with 150lb/ft is a car with just throttle bodies giving just over 160bhp, the engine in question is in the region of 215/220bhp, the torque wont be as much as an sc car but should be much higher than 150lb/ft shouldnt it?

No, a 215bhp throttlebody car won't be much more than 150lb/ft. As a rule of thumb, all efficient n/a cars will generally produce between a maximum 70-80 ft lbs per litre - This applies to both your average super mini and a high performance race car. The difference is, a race car produces the torque higher up the rev range which is how the higher bhp/litre is achieved (Horsepower = Torque x rpm / 5252). This really is how throttle bodies work, by shifting the torque higher up the rev range. The only real way to increase the torque of an engine is to either increase the engine size, or go forced induction.

Personally, I would wait for the supercharger!

[fiveoclock]

Well, after a few revelations I've decided to forget the TMS engine and wait for the sc. Not posting the story here, pm if you like. In my opinion and it may not necc be so, I wasnt told the full story.

[fiveoclock]

Everything comes to those who wait, Jon at Courtenays called me tonight, chargers should be in the uk in a couple of days

[NickB787]

great news you won't regret it

[fiveoclock]

Everything comes to those who wait, Jon at Courtenays called me tonight, chargers should be in the uk in a couple of days

I meant manifolds