155 replies to this topic

[chris_uk]

I know that joe but surely it stands to reason, low pressure with bigger inj holes = tap like flow, high pressure with smaller holes = pressure washer like flow. Thats just how it is unless you can control the hole size on the injectors which you cant and seeing as its mixes with air better the finer the mist, the better the burn the more efficient and economical.. To me its just 2 ways of getting to the same bottleneck, the killer here like you said at cadwell is the intake temps.. So regardless of which injector is used you have to stop at 360ish before intake temps start to become an issue if you dont use meth or nos.

[Nev]

<sub>I have had Siemens Deka 4 (630 cc/min) injectors in Nipper for 3 years now, based on experience I would say the following:

1. You will likely get less MPG as you move up in injector sizes, so don't move up from the VXR (light blue) injectors until you really need to.
I get about 20 MPG if I am driving sensibly.

2. You may get a worse idle. Nippers is terrible, but that is mainly due to ther factors I think.

630cc (on a TC'ed car as opposed to a SC'ed car (which by the sounds of it needs a higher BSFC for cooling) should be good for 430 ish BHP with a 3.3 Bar FPR (at 80% dutry cycle).</sub>

[The Batman]

You can't control the hole size but you can control the flow rate. So you control how much fuel is going through the holes. Fitting larger injectors instead of increasing the fuel pressure is just alot safer. But I agree fuel isn't the issue it's the intake manifold. Should just fit a Saab intake manifold with a rotrex charger

[davemate]

Back on topic then

So 4 sets of injectors
4 sets of spacers

I know I don't have 4 so will see if I can get pro alloy to make some copies

If this is what I need for the Harrop please also put me down.

[The Batman]

5 sets Any more?

[Bargi]

and the wide band lambadas

[The Batman]

630cc and raising blocks 1. Jjj 2. Haggi 3. Bargi 4. Davemate 5. Nickb777 Bargi I'm not sure if there is any interest for that is there?

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

Yes there is

[Bargi]

JJJ and Haggi, or anyone going Dutch?

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

Yep

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

Just out of curiosity what plugs on the blue VXR injectors

[The Batman]

Ev1

[The Batman]

Sort a list for me and will get it sorted

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

Wide band lambada 1. Chill dependant on price

Edited by Chill, 04 April 2013 - 05:53 PM.

[haggi961]

Yep i think im going dutch. Whats the crack with this Wide band lambada. What does it do and do i need it?

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

Yep i think im going dutch. Whats the crack with this Wide band lambada. What does it do and do i need it?

I believe you can map without wide band lambada but you will have to wait for cooling when you self map at higher RPM

Edited by Chill, 04 April 2013 - 06:37 PM.

[Bargi]

For the TMap sensor you can choose between: - Map sensor 2.5 Bar (Bosch 0 261 230 042) - Map sensor 3.0 Bar (Bosch 0 281 002 437) Because you have a ported head and a good exhaust I think your boost will stay below 2.5 bar with the Harrop. However I am not sure about the effect of the OEM cams, not mapped a Harrop yet with OEM cams. So maybe go for the 3.0 bar version to be safe. FYI, the TMAP sensor is the most important sensors when using speed density mode, I would advice not to go for a cheap Chinese copy. I have not mapped a Harrop with OEM cams, this means I do not have a plug and play calibration for your Harrop setup. So you have to do a fuel learning session to get the most out of your setup. What kind of charge cooling are you going to use? > I think I saw someone mention using the deleted EGR input for a wide band lambda sensor? Yes, you can disable the EGR valve and connect a wideband to the EGR input. This data can be used for WOT tuning. > I'd like to fit an oil temp and pressure sensor and wondered if it would be possible to > interface it also? At the moment I only have one extra analogue input free for external devices. Kind regards, Peter

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

I did take a look, and I agree the Siemens injectors will give poor results with the standard ECU software. But at this time I have calibrated a couple of engines with the Siemens 50lb and 60lb injectors without any problems.

I have also calibrated a number of engines with the Blue Bosch injectors, in combination with the stage II Eaton M62 these are fine. But in combination with other cams, smaller pulley and good flowing exhaust, (like your setup) they went over 90% duty cycle at 7000 rpm. This is without a ported cylinder head, and in your case for a track car I would like to have some margin for extra fuel when things get to hot. For your information, above 90% - 95% duty cycle it becomes critical, the ECU cannot regulate the injector anymore because of the dead time in the injector. Depending on battery voltage, the injector will go from about 90-95% into static flow (100%) without the ECU having any control over it.

I think your best choice would be the Siemens 50 lb, but these are not easy to get in Europe. In the end it is your choice, I have no problem if you stay with the VXR injectors and you can always upgrade to the bigger injectors if it turns out the VXR injectors are too close to the limit.

[Bumblebee]

Can I ask why a lot of you s/c boys are choosing to go with the Dutch ecu and not adaptronic?

[haggi961]

So which is the best to go for the 50lb or 60lb ?