939 replies to this topic

[Goosenka]

Many Christians I have come across have been hypocrites.  

What you talking about Willis?

[Wolfstone]

 

Many Christians I have come across have been hypocrites.  

What you talking about Willis?

 

 

Love that show.  

 

[oblomov]

God? There is no empirical evidence that She exists, so no rational support for any such belief. However from an epistemological perspective some of our most cherished 'scientific facts' are just beliefs with little or highly suspect supporting evidence.  For example Darwin's Theory of Evolution is taught as gospel, yet when examined closely, is far from scientifically proven. In my opinion for what it's worth, Darwin's theory fails to take in to account one particular and incredibly important aspect of nature which is known to exist everywhere and even acknowledged scientifically but can never be proven. Darwin's Theory of Evolution is like the Einstein's Theory of Relativity, it's relative.

 

Probably the most serious scientific shortcoming is Science’s failure to establish the true nature of our experience of consciousness.  Science has established that on a quantum level the observer has an influence on what is being observed.  However it is assumed, without scientific proof that this occurs only on a quantum level and but not in the world of ordinary phenomena.

 

In the world in which we live, what is 'real' and what is 'not real' is defined by scientific criteria, but, the scientific methodology of proof by experimentation is flawed because science assumes (without proof) that all that occurs in the phenomenal world can be defined as real or false through it's own self serving methodology.   But, what if there are phenomena that are in fact real but the nature of their reality is such that that reality cannot be scientifically proven?  If that's the case (and there are strong indications that it is) then we live in an impoverished version reality, i.e. our reality is not reality at all.

 

There was a program on the TV recently about logic and reason, dwelling in particular on syllogistic logic as a tool for reasoning. No mention was made of the fact that logic is a closed or passive information system from which no new ideas can be obtained. Neither was it mentioned (if even understood) that reason is separate from logic, and, if reason is correctly applied to syllogistic logic, not only does syllogistic logic fail, but reason may reach (infer) a completely different conclusion (proposition). This is because syllogistic logic is flawed.

 

What I'm saying is that though there is no empirical evidence for the existence of God and therefore no justification for religious belief on an empirical basis; the empirical scientific/materialistic belief system is itself so fundamentally flawed that empirical criteria and empirical judgements as to whether or not God exists are of little or no value. So most people who say they don't believe in God because there is no evidence of Her existence are unaware that the logical methodology by which they arrive at their conclusion is flawed. Had they understood how to correctly apply reason, then then their conclusion might be the difference between being atheist and agnostic.

 

Derren Brown has demonstrated that people can be tricked into having 'religious experiences' which can convince them of the existence of deity, but all that proves is that er... people can be tricked into having 'religious experiences' which can convince them of the existence of deity.

 

Do I believe in God? Well, if I did it certainly wouldn't be a naïve belief in some simplistic anthropomorphic deity, a belief which for many includes an equally naive a belief that somehow we mere mortals are sufficiently sophisticated in intelligence and understanding to be able to comprehend the nature of the grand scheme of things.

 

I have no religious beliefs.

 

[moospeed]

Interesting thread. Oddly enough it was a subject that came up last night... I went to Catholic school and had religious education rammed down my throat. To some extent I wonder if that's why I can't convince myself that there isn't a God, or at least something more to life than the scientific fact that we're lumps of meat with electric impulses kicking around in the brain. For those who are saying "until I see some proof then I don't believe in God" - well that's kind of missing the point of faith. But i understand what you're saying. I wish there could be some way of proving with unarguable evidence, but as there never has been I can't imagine it's something that ever will be proven. The biggest problem I have with organised religion though is that all of them are based around stories, rules, fables handed down over hundreds or thousands of years. It's highly unlikely that someone who considers them a Christian today has that many beliefs that close to a Christian of a thousand years ago. Wish there was a big voice from above I guess related to this. What happens when we die? As we are just lumps of meat (apparently) then that's it - worm food. And in that case, how about all those perfectly logical people who don't believe in God, and consider that we are just meat - and yet will be perfectly happy to describe a situation of witnessing a spiritual presence after death of a loved one or suchlike. To my way of thinking right now, it just seems a bit unrealistic that there isn't more to us, more to nature, than the mere existence of around eight decades and then nothing. As unrealistic as saying there's no other living things in this universe - that's something I have zero doubt about and that's thinking with a scientific mind but without a shred of evidence.

[slindborg]

I have faith without needing God or religion..... E.g. I have faith that the people on my ignore list aren't really the doodahs I believe them to be

[Mangham54]

I have faith without needing God or religion..... E.g. I have faith that the people on my ignore list aren't really the doodahs I believe them to be

 

Flippin'eck... That has to be the most profound thing I have read in several years!!!!

[slindborg]

It'll be quoted as some sort of meaningful prose in a book in the future, just you wait.

[Rosssco]

[casino]

Moospeed, which school did you go to? I went to Bishop Thomas Grant... yep...an RC school.  I dont remember there being too many RC schools when I was growing up in Streatham.

 

Its quite hip not to believe in God. People these days believe in Google and twitter.. in motorways being open and electric lights working when they flick the switch. In strikers scoring and their team winning. God only seems to get a look in at Christmas or maybe Easter. Look at Christmas... I aint seen a single Crib...a single baby Jesus in any shop... See what I mean?  Who needs God when we have sorted out so much? God v technology? God don't stand a chance. We harness technology to prove he doesnt exist. .. if science cant prove it then science is right. This is 2013, we don't need a God..?

 

But God works in his own way unbound by what we .org members think. He's one tough cookie. Just watch that series called the BIBLE on Sat nights 9pm C4. Look what he did to so many different folks. He said to his chosen people KILL THEM ALL and was annoyed when one bloke was spared. Just because he wanted his chosen people to have land and other tribes were in the way. And another time, God got this leader to take his son up a mountain and sacrifice him.. only God stopped the knife at the very last second. ...(Ive a feeling this was to do with testing the leader to see how much he believed in God...??)

 

God doesnt muck about. Yeah bad things happen down here on earth. Thats why its not called Heaven.

I see it as a sort of eye opener as to how things could be if we believed in God and do what he says we should.  

 

And its no good kicking me or driving round to mine to set me right cause of what Ive written, I don't make the rules...Im just trying to explaining best I can.

Theres lots I dont understand too. Look at those millions of Jews gassed and murdered, surely they must have prayed ? But look what happened... Like I said , I don't get it most times.

 

To a certain extent we have what it takes to sort things out down here without God getting his hands dirty. We should be able to sort out Syria, North Korea, etc. But mankind is too weak and this is an imperfect world. Doesn't mean God aint taking stock. Theres a reckoning to be had some place some time...as God says somewhere in the bible... Vengeance is mine.

 

Strange thing is.. its said that the biggest trick the devil put over on us mortals is to make us believe he doesn't really exist.

 

So now, who do you believe in, God or the devil? 

[Darcini]

  Slindborg for God.

[siztenboots]

Oolon Colluphid (Where God Went Wrong, Some More of God's Greatest Mistakes, Who is this God Person Anyway? and Well That About Wraps it Up for God)

[siztenboots]

does Schrödinger's cat exist?

[Bargi]

it cracks me up how the some of the anti God/Religion people can be as fanatical and in your face about it as the extreme/fanatical 

 

and then say there would no war if there was no religion, bollocks, people would find something else to group together and fight about... oh hang on the do, they're call gangs

 

 

 

[Rosssco]

does Schrödinger's cat exist?

 

Now that you've mentioned it, no.

[slindborg]

does Schrödinger's cat exist?

Yes, but is it alive? And no, not me for God as I simply can't be arsed with the faff.

[ghand]

Jan and her brother walked out of St Helens hospital two days ago in total shock with the most devastating news anyone could be given. I tell you what when God created cancer he played a fcuking blinder. So any of you with a direct line to him up above fancy pulling in a favour let me know, be my guest and see what you can do. Oh and don't mention the words happy Christmas. I would love to meet God so I could punch the bastard in the head.

[XXX]

No. The whole idea that there is a god up there is pure fantasy. The most ridiculous concept ever dreamed up. How millions of sane people can buy into this idea is scary.

[KurtVerbose]

Without wishing to cause offense - my god's better than yours.

[ghand]

Without wishing to cause offense - my god's better than yours.

He is better than mine, I ain't got one

[ghand]

No. The whole idea that there is a god up there is pure fantasy. The most ridiculous concept ever dreamed up. How millions of sane people can buy into this idea is scary.

Scary and some. I once asked a born again church going Christian from work why he believes in god, listen to this gem, because he prayed to god and god saved his marriage FFS Didn't help the youngster with lukemea we all prayed for and he won't help our latest cancer victims in the family but saved his marriage so that's good