939 replies to this topic

[Dan r]

I like the thought of people finding comfort and support with religion and respect peoples beliefs. However I can't help but think that it is an epic brain washing exercise that should have died out long ago. I also cannot believe if there is a god, that he would want people to be worshipping him instead of enjoying and doing something useful / meaningful with their lives.

[siztenboots]

its all got something to do with who can wear the biggest hat

[Mangham54]

I like the thought of people finding comfort and support with religion and respect peoples beliefs. However I can't help but think that it is an epic brain washing exercise that should have died out long ago. I also cannot believe if there is a god, that he would want people to be worshipping him instead of enjoying and doing something useful / meaningful with their lives.

But isn't that where the issue resides - not that he/she/it may exist, but how groups/individuals interpret how they feel they / others should relate to him/her/it? Is the notion of a God a problem, or religion for directing how a deity should be honoured? To Gordon: I am really sorry to hear what is going on, having had a family member be advised he had prostate cancer just before Christmas last year I can feel the pain - it really hurt and the pain it put my Mum through last year was horrid. It knocked me for six, so goodness what she was going through. Fortunately he managed to persuade them to treat him, as at 79 they didn't see the point. A year on, cancer treatment done, it is clear time has finally caught up with him. This time last year he would have put my strength and stamina to shame - that is certainly no longer the case. Whether the treatment has done what it needs to is yet to be known. Not that you want or need it my thoughts are with you.

[ghand]

I like the thought of people finding comfort and support with religion and respect peoples beliefs. However I can't help but think that it is an epic brain washing exercise that should have died out long ago. I also cannot believe if there is a god, that he would want people to be worshipping him instead of enjoying and doing something useful / meaningful with their lives.

But isn't that where the issue resides - not that he/she/it may exist, but how groups/individuals interpret how they feel they / others should relate to him/her/it? Is the notion of a God a problem, or religion for directing how a deity should be honoured? To Gordon: I am really sorry to hear what is going on, having had a family member be advised he had prostate cancer just before Christmas last year I can feel the pain - it really hurt and the pain it put my Mum through last year was horrid. It knocked me for six, so goodness what she was going through. Fortunately he managed to persuade them to treat him, as at 79 they didn't see the point. A year on, cancer treatment done, it is clear time has finally caught up with him. This time last year he would have put my strength and stamina to shame - that is certainly no longer the case. Whether the treatment has done what it needs to is yet to be known. Not that you want or need it my thoughts are with you.

Cheers fella, unfortunately this is a very rare cancer which started in the appendix, when he went in to have it removed it was imposable and so things will not have a good outcome. Like I said when this so called God created cancer he did a good job.

[KurtVerbose]

Although God sometimes cures people with cancer, he never cures amputees. He must hate them.

 

I'm quoting someone else on here on that one.

[Mangham54]

I like the thought of people finding comfort and support with religion and respect peoples beliefs. However I can't help but think that it is an epic brain washing exercise that should have died out long ago. I also cannot believe if there is a god, that he would want people to be worshipping him instead of enjoying and doing something useful / meaningful with their lives.

But isn't that where the issue resides - not that he/she/it may exist, but how groups/individuals interpret how they feel they / others should relate to him/her/it? Is the notion of a God a problem, or religion for directing how a deity should be honoured? To Gordon: I am really sorry to hear what is going on, having had a family member be advised he had prostate cancer just before Christmas last year I can feel the pain - it really hurt and the pain it put my Mum through last year was horrid. It knocked me for six, so goodness what she was going through. Fortunately he managed to persuade them to treat him, as at 79 they didn't see the point. A year on, cancer treatment done, it is clear time has finally caught up with him. This time last year he would have put my strength and stamina to shame - that is certainly no longer the case. Whether the treatment has done what it needs to is yet to be known. Not that you want or need it my thoughts are with you.

Cheers fella, unfortunately this is a very rare cancer which started in the appendix, when he went in to have it removed it was imposable and so things will not have a good outcome. Like I said when this so called God created cancer he did a good job.

Really sorry to hear that. It is merely my view, but there is a part of me that feels nature has / is trying to balance our achievements as a species. We have developed drugs etc that have enabled us to bypass the normal course of nature and cancer seems to be the new malaria, flu and other old mass killers wrapped into one. Illnesses used to discriminate against the poor and rich specifically, but in different ways. But famine and excess no longer pull these people down. Nature is therefore indescriminate with cancer. If born 200yrs or more ago I would be long dead, as without corrected vision I would have been eaten or fallen over the edge of a cliff, but I am alive now. Sorry of my philosophical billshit doesn't help, but it is my solace against a vicious and seemingly unfair world. The best guys die young and the bastards survive.

[Duncan_F]

I don't believe in a God, or heaven and hell.

 

I believe in the theory of evolution, and I believe the universe was created with the big bang theory. Whilst both theories may not be watertight that's why I believe in science, they're theories using the best science available at the time and are open to challenged and amended when new evidence becomes available.

 

For me the bible is too full of holes, the timeline has been proved to be incorrect for example. It has been proven that the Earth is much much older than the bible claims. And as Gordan so eloquently put it, there's also the slight issue of the missing chapter that explains the dinosaurs.

 

My personal theory is that however many years ago there was probably a Mandela type figure called Jesus who preached about good will to all men, who wanted an end to poverty and suffering etc. He probably used stories to get his point across to people. These stories in essence became the bible.

 

Now, if you take these stories as a guide on how to live your life, thou shalt not steal, thou shall not do violence towards others, thou shalt not get jiggy with thy neighbours flock without consent etc etc, then I believe that if humankind lived their lives to these morals then the World would be a much much better place than it is now. If that's what religion was, not preaching the bible as fact, just preaching the sentiments in it, I think more people would be religious.

 

However, I believe that religion has been used as a tool throughout our history to gain power over people. Look at how many people have died in religious wars, look at how many children have been molested, look at how many crimes have been committed in the name of God. I don't believe religion in itself is bad, it's just that people use it to justify their own evilness.

[Darcini]

thou shalt not get jiggy with thy neighbours flock without consent etc

So is that in the Welsh edition?

[KurtVerbose]

[ghand]

I don't believe in a God, or heaven and hell.   I believe in the theory of evolution, and I believe the universe was created with the big bang theory. Whilst both theories may not be watertight that's why I believe in science, they're theories using the best science available at the time and are open to challenged and amended when new evidence becomes available.   For me the bible is too full of holes, the timeline has been proved to be incorrect for example. It has been proven that the Earth is much much older than the bible claims. And as Gordan so eloquently put it, there's also the slight issue of the missing chapter that explains the dinosaurs.   My personal theory is that however many years ago there was probably a Mandela type figure called Jesus who preached about good will to all men, who wanted an end to poverty and suffering etc. He probably used stories to get his point across to people. These stories in essence became the bible.   Now, if you take these stories as a guide on how to live your life, thou shalt not steal, thou shall not do violence towards others, thou shalt not get jiggy with thy neighbours flock without consent etc etc, then I believe that if humankind lived their lives to these morals then the World would be a much much better place than it is now. If that's what religion was, not preaching the bible as fact, just preaching the sentiments in it, I think more people would be religious.   However, I believe that religion has been used as a tool throughout our history to gain power over people. Look at how many people have died in religious wars, look at how many children have been molested, look at how many crimes have been committed in the name of God. I don't believe religion in itself is bad, it's just that people use it to justify their own evilness.

Thats about it in nut shell Duncan. But they were also a bit selective and added a little to the story's of old I think to suit them at the time and then translation messed stuff up more.

[Duncan_F]

 

But they were also a bit selective and added a little to the story's of old I think to suit them at the time and then translation messed stuff up more.

 

That's absolutely the case. I bet there's quite a bit of Chinese whispers going on where things have changed slightly, accidentally and intentionally.

 

And isn't there loads of stuff from the original bible that has been removed ?. Wasn't there a whole chapter or two about Mary Magdelene (sp?) that was taken out because whoever was in charge at the time didn't want any reference to women being equal or having power ?

[ghand]

Many a true word spoken in jest.

[turbobob]

The Bible isn't comprehensive and correct. It is a series of writings from different people that have evolved. I believe a lot of the elements of the stories. But I don't believe them in a religious sense. For example I believe that there was someone called Jesus. Whether the conception was immaculate I don't believe. I think Mary was a prostitute and had sex with a roman guard and got pregnant. Joseph took pity on her and looked after her. He was executed. Or at least the Romans tried to. Was he actually dead before they entombed him? I don't think so. So it was deemed a resurrection. 

 

[XXX]

Mary? A hooker? Shame on you in this festive season....!

[chrisgold]

Religion is a form of control. Since my mum got breast cancer twice the other year shes turning more religious. Pisses me off, hippy sh*t.

I didn't follow any religion, I agree its control. And other peoples views of god - which I don't agree with. But I do beleive in god. Was not brought up to beleive, but certain things in life have made me beleive in a higher power - in my own way. There is too much order to the universe for not to be a higher power - just one of many reasons I believe - a mathematical perfection to the universe! Its amazing really when you think about it. But Religions - what a load of nonsense most of it

[KurtVerbose]

I think Mary was a prostitute and had sex with a roman guard and got pregnant.

 

More likely raped by a roman. Even today people confuse 'victim of rape' with 'loose woman', not that I would judge a 'loose woman'?  

[alexb]

 

Religion is a form of control. Since my mum got breast cancer twice the other year shes turning more religious. Pisses me off, hippy sh*t.

I didn't follow any religion, I agree its control. And other peoples views of god - which I don't agree with. But I do beleive in god. Was not brought up to beleive, but certain things in life have made me beleive in a higher power - in my own way. There is too much order to the universe for not to be a higher power - just one of many reasons I believe - a mathematical perfection to the universe! Its amazing really when you think about it. But Religions - what a load of nonsense most of it

 

 

There is very little mathematical perfection to the universe. Or perhaps better, it's not strange that the universe suits certain mathematical models, as these models were created exactly for that purpose. Maths is a tool that physicists use to model something they observe and can measure. The tool itself is neither here nor there. Pure mathematics is completely self contained, that's the whole purpose of it. Physics uses it to try and model phenomena, but the link with the 'real world' is usually far from obvious. To illustrate, Newton's law of gravity describes the gravitational force between two bodies. It does a great job as long as speeds are non-relativistic. But it doesn't say anything about how the bodies interact. That goes much deeper and is still under debate (space curvature for Einsteinian space, gravitons for quantum physics and string theory as an effort to combine the two).

 

And about the big bang theory, quite right, it's an elegant theory of what might have happened, but it doesn't really answer anything about a prime mover (God). So big bang happens (in what btw?). Is there a cause to that big bang? Or did it just happen by sheer coincidence?

 

Same with evolution. At some stage you have to start with a construct (cell, molecule, whatever) that is self replicating and capable of mutations that are self replicating too. Soon as you have that and the right challenging environment the selection process of survival of the fittest will cause diversity. Given enough time (and that we have), these constructs will become very complex. And at a certain stage conciousness happens, which gives us the ability to think about gods and how it all came about. But is that conciousness by divine intervention, or is it an evolutionary treat like eyes are?

 

For the records, I only believe in probability

[moospeed]

Moospeed, which school did you go to? I went to Bishop Thomas Grant... yep...an RC school.  I dont remember there being too many RC schools when I was growing up in Streatham.

 

.... 

 

It was St William of Perth in Rochester. Apparently does really well on the offsted results these days so they must've moved on from the brainwashing of when I went there onto some actual other education.

 

Going to church every Monday, Thursday and Sunday as a child must set some neuron links in the brain which don't totally break in adulthood to my mind...

 

Dynamo for deity I say... he's got it sussed man !!

[Rosssco]

 

 

Religion is a form of control.
Since my mum got breast cancer twice the other year shes turning more religious. Pisses me off, hippy sh*t.

I didn't follow any religion, I agree its control. And other peoples views of god - which I don't agree with.

But I do beleive in god. Was not brought up to beleive, but certain things in life have made me beleive in a higher power - in my own way. There is too much order to the universe for not to be a higher power - just one of many reasons I believe - a mathematical perfection to the universe! Its amazing really when you think about it.

But Religions - what a load of nonsense most of it

 

 

There is very little mathematical perfection to the universe. Or perhaps better, it's not strange that the universe suits certain mathematical models, as these models were created exactly for that purpose. Maths is a tool that physicists use to model something they observe and can measure. The tool itself is neither here nor there. Pure mathematics is completely self contained, that's the whole purpose of it. Physics uses it to try and model phenomena, but the link with the 'real world' is usually far from obvious. To illustrate, Newton's law of gravity describes the gravitational force between two bodies. It does a great job as long as speeds are non-relativistic. But it doesn't say anything about how the bodies interact. That goes much deeper and is still under debate (space curvature for Einsteinian space, gravitons for quantum physics and string theory as an effort to combine the two).

 

And about the big bang theory, quite right, it's an elegant theory of what might have happened, but it doesn't really answer anything about a prime mover (God). So big bang happens (in what btw?). Is there a cause to that big bang? Or did it just happen by sheer coincidence?

 

Same with evolution. At some stage you have to start with a construct (cell, molecule, whatever) that is self replicating and capable of mutations that are self replicating too. Soon as you have that and the right challenging environment the selection process of survival of the fittest will cause diversity. Given enough time (and that we have), these constructs will become very complex. And at a certain stage conciousness happens, which gives us the ability to think about gods and how it all came about. But is that conciousness by divine intervention, or is it an evolutionary treat like eyes are?

 

For the records, I only believe in probability

 

 

And you can still believe in an omnipotent being when applying that logic. A few million years of human evolution will (I think) result in what we would consider to to be a god-like being, assuming we learn to harness the universe on a quantum level. They could do pretty much all the biblical stuff easily

 

You also have something like a Boltzmann brain, which we could be the 'God' some of us are referring to as the creator of everything. So to me its more scientifically (and mathematically) likely that if there is a 'God', its actually a highly advanced alien from another universe / dimension. The 'Big Bang' (and therefore our universe) could in fact just be the result of an experiment by an intelligence from another dimension, as sci-fi as that sounds.. In fact, it would actually fit quite well in that it would explain a few fundamental aspects of the universe which happen to be just spot on for the formation of the universe (i.e. weight / type of fundamental particles).

 

http://www.huffingto..._n_2282745.html

 

Edited by Rosssco, 13 December 2013 - 09:57 AM.

[casino]

God V science and technology. ..mans attempt to pigeon hole God. What a joke.

 

Why should God be limited to what we know or dont know? God can do anything. Anything outside our realm of human knowledge. 

 

If He couldnt, then he wouldnt be God then would he.