388 replies to this topic

[Jocke_D]

 

500 BHP - Not enough shove

 

Let's indeed see that in some perspective.

 

Lamborghini Aventador LP700-4 700 bhp/690 nm @ 1575 kg = 444 bhp per 1000kg

 

Bugatti Veyron 1001bhp/1250nm @ 1880 kg = 532 bhp per 1000kg VX220 1cobrav8 Edition 509 bhp/498 nm @ 930 kg = 547 bhp per 1000kg

 

 

 

I was thinking something along that line

[Jocke_D]

Remembered something i read at Koenigsegg.com a while back about the "Power to weight to weight" ratio => http://koenigsegg.co...s-and-measures/

 

The One:1 has a PWW of 7.353 and the Agera RS has 6.074.

The formula is [color=rgb(77,77,77);font-family:'Noto Sans', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;font-size:18px;](P/W)/W*10000)[/color]. The last multiplication of 10000 is to get an understandable figure.

 

Some example figures

Standard 2.2 Speedster ((150/850)/850*10000) = 2.08

Generic stage2 SC Speedster ((250/900)/900*10000) = 3.09

BMW M2: (370/1595)/1595*10000 = 1.45

Cayman GTS: (340/1345)/1345*10000 = 1.88

And for the 2.4 Harrop madness mobile PWW would be 5.88 (509/930)/930*10000)

That's not to bad, I think.

[Jocke_D]

Double for some reason

Edited by Jocke_D, 18 August 2016 - 01:59 PM.

[Rosssco]

Weight wise, 880kg is probably more accurate if minor weight reduction has been completed.

 

= 578 bhp/tonne

[Nev]

I expect it will be enough power to get get you into some sticky situations faster than your/anyone's brain can compute.

 

As I am sure you are fully aware, 200 HP BEC compared to 500 HP VX220 will be 2 very different animals. Your 100 to 190 MPH will be way faster than a BEC, and this is where the danger lies IMO, deadly speeds reached ultra fast.

 

Personally (with my limited skillz) I think 450 HP is the sweet spot on the VX (for the road anyway), and I'd concur with Nick747 about chasing numbers. However I fully understand the inquisitive mind that wants to find the max limit too.

 

 

Edited by Nev, 18 August 2016 - 02:48 PM.

[vocky]

Dare I stick my neck out and say that it is the cams which are restricting the 2.2 Harrop cars, not the inlet manifold

 

......... waits to be shot down   

[MAXR]

I expect it will be enough power to get get you into some sticky situations faster than your/anyone's brain can compute.

 

As I am sure you are fully aware, 200 HP BEC compared to 500 HP VX220 will be 2 very different animals. Your 100 to 190 MPH will be way faster than a BEC, and this is where the danger lies IMO, deadly speeds reached ultra fast.

 

Personally (with my limited skillz) I think 450 HP is the sweet spot on the VX (for the road anyway), and I'd concur with Nick747 about chasing numbers. However I fully understand the inquisitive mind that wants to find the max limit too.

 

 

 

 

Nev, Sweet spot 450 HP in a light plastic car? 

[MAXR]

Dare I stick my neck out and say that it is the cams which are restricting the 2.2 Harrop cars, not the inlet manifold

 

......... waits to be shot down   

 

 

Neil, Why have you come to that conclusion?

[NickB787]

Dare I stick my neck out and say that it is the cams which are restricting the 2.2 Harrop cars, not the inlet manifold   ......... waits to be shot down   

    Neil, Why have you come to that conclusion?

Do you mean it should be using the zzp stage 3 cams, there B207 head only though aren't they.

[smiley]

Dare I stick my neck out and say that it is the cams which are restricting the 2.2 Harrop cars, not the inlet manifold

 

Power in general, or the miraculeus 7k to 7800?

[Nev]

Dare I stick my neck out and say that it is the cams which are restricting the 2.2 Harrop cars, not the inlet manifold

 

......... waits to be shot down   

 

What's the inlet lift and duration on this build please Vocky/anyone?

[NickB787]

Dare I stick my neck out and say that it is the cams which are restricting the 2.2 Harrop cars, not the inlet manifold   ......... waits to be shot down   

  What's the inlet lift and duration on this build please Vocky/anyone?

These are the zzp ones ZZP S1 is 210/206 @ 1mm and 10.78mm/10.69mm lift, 109 LSA ZZP S2 is 216/218 @ 1mm and 10.78mm/10.69mm lift, 111 LSA ZZP S3 is 216/224 @ 1mm and 10.78mm/11.10mm lift, 113 LSA Blower Cams Cam Style: Hydraulic roller tappet Basic Operating RPM Range: 2,800-7,000 Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift: 210 Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift: 218 Duration at 050 inch Lift: 210 int./218 exh. Advertised Intake Duration: 252 Advertised Exhaust Duration: 262 Advertised Duration: 252 int./262 exh. Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.423 in. Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.436 in. Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.423 int./0.436 exh. lift Lobe Separation (degrees): 113

Edited by NickB787, 18 August 2016 - 05:49 PM.

[Nev]

 

I expect it will be enough power to get get you into some sticky situations faster than your/anyone's brain can compute.

 

As I am sure you are fully aware, 200 HP BEC compared to 500 HP VX220 will be 2 very different animals. Your 100 to 190 MPH will be way faster than a BEC, and this is where the danger lies IMO, deadly speeds reached ultra fast.

 

Personally (with my limited skillz) I think 450 HP is the sweet spot on the VX (for the road anyway), and I'd concur with Nick747 about chasing numbers. However I fully understand the inquisitive mind that wants to find the max limit too.

 

 

 

 

Nev, Sweet spot 450 HP in a light plastic car? 

 

 

Yep, you sound sceptical. You need to try one out and they you'll see. I'll take you out in Nipper when you come to CC next time if you like. Once you've felt 1.8g of acceleration you will change your mind.

 

I still remember when people like JG were adamant about 150 BHP being enough in their VXes, and see what paths he has gone down... (and note the hypocracy of his words!). I have nothing against 150 HP VXes, I expect they are nice refined and easy cars to drive, however they are not as fast as they could be, and this I am sure is part of the reason why the OP is tuning his.

 

Great to see the S/C engines pushing the boundaries forward, the OP must have spent a small fortune, but his car will be dramatic. Proper eventful dramatic, which I think is what many of us want.

 

 

Edited by Nev, 18 August 2016 - 06:09 PM.

[Nev]

 

 

Dare I stick my neck out and say that it is the cams which are restricting the 2.2 Harrop cars, not the inlet manifold   ......... waits to be shot down   

  What's the inlet lift and duration on this build please Vocky/anyone?

These are the zzp ones ZZP S1 is 210/206 @ 1mm and 10.78mm/10.69mm lift, 109 LSA ZZP S2 is 216/218 @ 1mm and 10.78mm/10.69mm lift, 111 LSA ZZP S3 is 216/224 @ 1mm and 10.78mm/11.10mm lift, 113 LSA Blower Cams Cam Style: Hydraulic roller tappet Basic Operating RPM Range: 2,800-7,000 Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift: 210 Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift: 218 Duration at 050 inch Lift: 210 int./218 exh. Advertised Intake Duration: 252 Advertised Exhaust Duration: 262 Advertised Duration: 252 int./262 exh. Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.423 in. Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.436 in. Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.423 int./0.436 exh. lift Lobe Separation (degrees): 113

 

 

Assuming he has the ZZP S3 cams in there, then 11.1 mm of lift is pretty huge really. Duration of 225 (assuming I am reading it right) seems a bit low to me.

 

For reference, my inlet cam has 276 duration, which does mean it idles horribly and kangaroos until about 1500 RPM and can stutter even up to 1900 RPM.

Edited by Nev, 18 August 2016 - 06:14 PM.

[The Batman]

he has pikey na cams that seem to work very well

 

[smiley]

Great to see the S/C engines pushing the boundaries forward, the OP must have spent a small fortune, but his car will be dramatic.

 

 

Not so long ago you flow quite off the handle when someone said that about Nipper.

[Nev]

 

Great to see the S/C engines pushing the boundaries forward, the OP must have spent a small fortune, but his car will be dramatic.

 

 

Not so long ago you flow quite off the handle when someone said that about Nipper.

 

 

I don't remember, what are you referring to please? My budget on Nipper has been considerably less than many guess if that's what you mean.  

Edited by Nev, 18 August 2016 - 06:27 PM.

[smiley]

When people questioned drivability on your fast map.

 

[vocky]

 

Dare I stick my neck out and say that it is the cams which are restricting the 2.2 Harrop cars, not the inlet manifold

 

......... waits to be shot down   

 

 

Neil, Why have you come to that conclusion?

 

 

I don't think there is anything special about the inlet manifold on this engine and it has 500+ horses, thus it is not restricting the power or is it  

 

 

 

 

Dare I stick my neck out and say that it is the cams which are restricting the 2.2 Harrop cars, not the inlet manifold   ......... waits to be shot down   

    Neil, Why have you come to that conclusion?

Do you mean it should be using the zzp stage 3 cams, there B207 head only though aren't they.

 

 

CompCams Blower camshafts are just a stage 1 and stage 2 NA camshaft

 

 

Dare I stick my neck out and say that it is the cams which are restricting the 2.2 Harrop cars, not the inlet manifold

 

Power in general, or the miraculeus 7k to 7800?

 

 

power in general

 

 

Dare I stick my neck out and say that it is the cams which are restricting the 2.2 Harrop cars, not the inlet manifold

 

......... waits to be shot down   

 

What's the inlet lift and duration on this build please Vocky/anyone?

 

 

they are both CompCams stage 3 NA cams

 

However a GEN 3 block or Darton sleeves are required to safely go past 400 bhp

[The Batman]

It's the water meth injection that is helping push past the intake manifold Not cams