200 replies to this topic

[vocky]

Vocky when would the stage 2 cams be needed or should i just get the stage 1's. I am aiming for TB's with some flow work but dont really want to touch the bottom end unless i have to.

Whats the old type chain? I have a 2002 so i guess it will have it??

stage 1 cams are basically the same as piper cams and work great with the stock ecu

if you intend to fit throttle bodies then buy the stage 2 cams, they will require uprated valve springs, but then you will be revving higher with the throttle bodies anyway

whilst the head is off to fit the uprated valve springs have the timing chain kit replaced, saves on labour costs too

it really is best to decide what you want in the end to save buying the wrong parts or having to do the same things twice

[Muncher]

I know the build book says the pistons are ok up to 250bhp but there are a lot of people running beyond that with standard pistons and rods without issues, is the 250bhp an overly "safe" limit due to the way they are tested? I heard that to get that figure was produced at a very high rpm. If it's the engine speed that kills rods, what kills pistons?

[Jameshs]

Vocky when would the stage 2 cams be needed or should i just get the stage 1's. I am aiming for TB's with some flow work but dont really want to touch the bottom end unless i have to.

Whats the old type chain? I have a 2002 so i guess it will have it??

stage 1 cams are basically the same as piper cams and work great with the stock ecu

if you intend to fit throttle bodies then buy the stage 2 cams, they will require uprated valve springs, but then you will be revving higher with the throttle bodies anyway

whilst the head is off to fit the uprated valve springs have the timing chain kit replaced, saves on labour costs too

it really is best to decide what you want in the end to save buying the wrong parts or having to do the same things twice

I am ideally looking for around the 230bhp mark but dont really want to spend more than £3K? Is that possible.

I think i might go for the stage 2 cams then and while the head is off get it flowed. Dont really want to touch the bottom end though other than removing the balencing shalfs. Does that really make any difference??

[techieboy]

Dont really want to touch the bottom end though other than removing the balencing shalfs. Does that really make any difference??

Made a big difference on mine. That and the lightened flywheel just means instant acceleration the second you press the loud pedal.

[NickB787]

these any good
clicky

Yea but they don't do the tappered ones which are easy to use.

[techieboy]

these any good
clicky

Yea but they don't do the tappered ones which are easy to use.

I just got one of the accessory tins from Homebase, Nick. Can't get much closer to you than that!

[Jameshs]

Dont really want to touch the bottom end though other than removing the balencing shalfs. Does that really make any difference??

Made a big difference on mine. That and the lightened flywheel just means instant acceleration the second you press the loud pedal.

I want to get a lighten flywheel but ideally want to fit it myself but have no idea how too. Is there a guide to taking these shalfs out then?

[oakmere]

Dont really want to touch the bottom end though other than removing the balencing shalfs. Does that really make any difference??

Made a big difference on mine. That and the lightened flywheel just means instant acceleration the second you press the loud pedal.

How much extra vibration did you notice techieboy?

Cheers Oakmere

[Winstar]

I know the build book says the pistons are ok up to 250bhp but there are a lot of people running beyond that with standard pistons and rods without issues, is the 250bhp an overly "safe" limit due to the way they are tested? I heard that to get that figure was produced at a very high rpm. If it's the engine speed that kills rods, what kills pistons?

The in-cylinder pressure, as the torque is a function of the BMEP, and heat are the two things that kill the pistons

[techieboy]

Dont really want to touch the bottom end though other than removing the balencing shalfs. Does that really make any difference??

Made a big difference on mine. That and the lightened flywheel just means instant acceleration the second you press the loud pedal.

How much extra vibration did you notice techieboy?

Cheers Oakmere

Hard to say, to be honest. There is certainly more vibration at idle in the cabin (if I could get the car to idle at 875rpm it would all disappear) but I think a lot of that is due to us also fitting the polyurethane mount inserts on the rear mount so more vibration is transferred into the chassis. It actually feels quite good in a highly tuned kind of way. Would be interesting to see what it would have felt like on the standard rubber mounts but as mine gets tracked quite frequently, we figured uprating at least the rear mount to cope with the increased torque made sense.

[Muncher]

Hmmm, this has got me thinking, if I do go for stage 3 I'd like the balancer shafts out and the lightened flywheel. I'm just trying to think of the logistics of lifting the whole engine out and putting it back in again. I guess it's not THAT much of a pain in the arse to do, right? Can the gearbox be left in situ and the engine hoisted out? I guess it's a clam off job too? I guess you're just looking at 3x engine mounts, exhaust joint, an engine loom, fuel pipes and a coolant pipe....

[techieboy]

Hmmm, this has got me thinking, if I do go for stage 3 I'd like the balancer shafts out and the lightened flywheel. I'm just trying to think of the logistics of lifting the whole engine out and putting it back in again. I guess it's not THAT much of a pain in the arse to do, right?

Can the gearbox be left in situ and the engine hoisted out? I guess it's a clam off job too? I guess you're just looking at 3x engine mounts, exhaust joint, an engine loom, fuel pipes and a coolant pipe....

Yep. Clam off and engine out. We left the gearbox in-situ (supported on a jack) and uprated clutch and lightened flywheel were fitted to the engine whilst it was sat on the floor of the garage.

[Muncher]

Hmmm, this has got me thinking, if I do go for stage 3 I'd like the balancer shafts out and the lightened flywheel. I'm just trying to think of the logistics of lifting the whole engine out and putting it back in again. I guess it's not THAT much of a pain in the arse to do, right?

Can the gearbox be left in situ and the engine hoisted out? I guess it's a clam off job too? I guess you're just looking at 3x engine mounts, exhaust joint, an engine loom, fuel pipes and a coolant pipe....

Yep. Clam off and engine out. We left the gearbox in-situ (supported on a jack) and uprated clutch and lightened flywheel were fitted to the engine whilst it was sat on the floor of the garage.

Once the clam is off, how long are we talking to lift the engine out and replace it? I did it on my Golf last weekend and it was a major headache!

[Jameshs]

How easy is it to do the clutch, flywheel, slave cylinder and blancing shaft removal with the engine still in place??

[techieboy]

Hmmm, this has got me thinking, if I do go for stage 3 I'd like the balancer shafts out and the lightened flywheel. I'm just trying to think of the logistics of lifting the whole engine out and putting it back in again. I guess it's not THAT much of a pain in the arse to do, right?

Can the gearbox be left in situ and the engine hoisted out? I guess it's a clam off job too? I guess you're just looking at 3x engine mounts, exhaust joint, an engine loom, fuel pipes and a coolant pipe....

Yep. Clam off and engine out. We left the gearbox in-situ (supported on a jack) and uprated clutch and lightened flywheel were fitted to the engine whilst it was sat on the floor of the garage.

Once the clam is off, how long are we talking to lift the engine out and replace it? I did it on my Golf last weekend and it was a major headache!

It all happened very quickly when Vocky and I did it. Assuming you're clam comes off easily (and I guess yours will) then it's probably a couple of hours from start to engine out. From memory we had to take the alternator and inlet manifold off first, in order to let the engine rotate slightly to come out. Took a bit of teasing to seperate the gearbox. I think Vocky does it all himself but I'd say it's safer to have a spare set of hands just to ease the engine out (and back in again).

Mating the gearbox to the engine on refitting can be a bit of a pain but equally, it might just go straight back together first time.

[Muncher]

Balance shafts can't be done with the engine in place, unless the subframe is off.

[Jameshs]

Balance shafts can't be done with the engine in place, unless the subframe is off.

Dont say that as it now temps me to have bottom end work done

[vocky]

I am ideally looking for around the 230bhp mark but dont really want to spend more than £3K? Is that possible.

I think i might go for the stage 2 cams then and while the head is off get it flowed. Dont really want to touch the bottom end though other than removing the balencing shalfs. Does that really make any difference??

to get that sort of power you will need;

webcon throttle bodies kit + stage 5 mapping (stage 1 or stage 3 map supplied with tms kit)
2.5" exhaust system + sports cat + '4-2-1 or 4-1' manifold
+1mm stage 3 head + stage 2 cams
balancer delete + underdrive crank pulley

the beauty of tuning a normally aspirated engine is you can do it in stages rather than spend thousands all at once

[vocky]

How much extra vibration did you notice techieboy?

Cheers Oakmere

on my vx220, without the uprated engine mount inserts there was no extra vibration, infact the tickover was smoother after removing the balancer shafts [with pipercams fitted]

[MaDFreeBiRD]

to get that sort of power you will need;

webcon throttle bodies kit + stage 5 mapping (stage 1 or stage 3 map supplied with tms kit)
2.5" exhaust system + sports cat + '4-2-1 or 4-1' manifold
+1mm stage 3 head + stage 2 cams
balancer delete + underdrive crank pulley

the beauty of tuning a normally aspirated engine is you can do it in stages rather than spend thousands all at once

You know what im really liking the sound of that. Surely it isnt too hard is it?

Cost is surely more than £3000 though