174 replies to this topic

[Jon]

At this moment a US Cobalts-SS supplier (OTT performance) is investigating a group buy for Harrop TVS chargers...

http://www.cobaltss....ad.php?t=152639

As the US guys make 260-270WHP or more on the stock 2.0, I think the M62 should be enough to make close to 300BHP on a well prepared 2,2. (Ported head, rods, maybe cams)

if thats the case then all i have to get is rods and i got 300 bhp

Chris Fougler (hope Ive spelt that right) is an X DTM driver running a Speedster 2.2 at about 290-295 bhp with an M62 though his exhaust is nothing like the 2 Bular one on Nicks and Max's car, so 300 should be posible

and a decent map (lmfao)/stand alone ecu

Agreed , I think once we get into the solid mid 300 bhp's with spikey cams etc we are going to exhaust what we can do with the standard Delphi ECU (unless we happen to trip over a full Damos File, which would be nice!! ) From this point on then I believe stand alone is the way forward. We have looked at a number of systems and one thing that keeps coming back to us from people who have used a number of different stand alone options is that the more you pay the better control you get. The EFi unit seems fantastic if not a bit costly but will come with a bespoke custom loom for VX, there is also very clever X Lotus guy around at the moment who has worked wonders on some other very high BHP cars locally.

[The Batman]

any update on my ECU Jon?

[slindborg]

At this moment a US Cobalts-SS supplier (OTT performance) is investigating a group buy for Harrop TVS chargers...

http://www.cobaltss....ad.php?t=152639

As the US guys make 260-270WHP or more on the stock 2.0, I think the M62 should be enough to make close to 300BHP on a well prepared 2,2. (Ported head, rods, maybe cams)

if thats the case then all i have to get is rods and i got 300 bhp

Chris Fougler (hope Ive spelt that right) is an X DTM driver running a Speedster 2.2 at about 290-295 bhp with an M62 though his exhaust is nothing like the 2 Bular one on Nicks and Max's car, so 300 should be posible

and a decent map (lmfao)/stand alone ecu

Agreed , I think once we get into the solid mid 300 bhp's with spikey cams etc we are going to exhaust what we can do with the standard Delphi ECU (unless we happen to trip over a full Damos File, which would be nice!! ) From this point on then I believe stand alone is the way forward. We have looked at a number of systems and one thing that keeps coming back to us from people who have used a number of different stand alone options is that the more you pay the better control you get. The EFi unit seems fantastic if not a bit costly but will come with a bespoke custom loom for VX, there is also very clever X Lotus guy around at the moment who has worked wonders on some other very high BHP cars locally.

Autronic SM4 will give you pretty much everything you want, plus has some rather trick stuff you can do with it. Plus its half the cost of the EFi (only PITA is no ETB driver yet for the SM4)

What about Pectel... ETB driver to your spec (well more to the point, you send them the pedal and TB and they safety test the software and calibrat it all for you). If you can get enough orders the price isnt too horrific

[Jon]

At this moment a US Cobalts-SS supplier (OTT performance) is investigating a group buy for Harrop TVS chargers...

http://www.cobaltss....ad.php?t=152639

As the US guys make 260-270WHP or more on the stock 2.0, I think the M62 should be enough to make close to 300BHP on a well prepared 2,2. (Ported head, rods, maybe cams)

if thats the case then all i have to get is rods and i got 300 bhp

Chris Fougler (hope Ive spelt that right) is an X DTM driver running a Speedster 2.2 at about 290-295 bhp with an M62 though his exhaust is nothing like the 2 Bular one on Nicks and Max's car, so 300 should be posible

and a decent map (lmfao)/stand alone ecu

Agreed , I think once we get into the solid mid 300 bhp's with spikey cams etc we are going to exhaust what we can do with the standard Delphi ECU (unless we happen to trip over a full Damos File, which would be nice!! ) From this point on then I believe stand alone is the way forward. We have looked at a number of systems and one thing that keeps coming back to us from people who have used a number of different stand alone options is that the more you pay the better control you get. The EFi unit seems fantastic if not a bit costly but will come with a bespoke custom loom for VX, there is also very clever X Lotus guy around at the moment who has worked wonders on some other very high BHP cars locally.

Autronic SM4 will give you pretty much everything you want, plus has some rather trick stuff you can do with it. Plus its half the cost of the EFi (only PITA is no ETB driver yet for the SM4)

What about Pectel... ETB driver to your spec (well more to the point, you send them the pedal and TB and they safety test the software and calibrat it all for you). If you can get enough orders the price isnt too horrific

The ETB flyby malarky seems to make it more difficult. I will have a look at the Autronic and see if there is a fix coming for ETB. Thanks for that.
The man locally was a bit of a legend at Lotus and his support is said to be excellent, day and night!! could be a case of more cost on the hardware but less on the software certainly during the learning period Will check out the Autronic though.

[Jon]

any update on my ECU Jon?

Hi Joe, we will do it Monday am, sorry we got a bit carried away with Nicks car yesturday

[Exmantaa]

There is a US company Trifecta who is the only one over there able to program the US 2,2 GM ECU. As we use almost the same GM ecu (we have the GM15 or 16?), might give them a call??
http://www.trifectaperformance.com/

[The Batman]

any update on my ECU Jon?

Hi Joe, we will do it Monday am, sorry we got a bit carried away with Nicks car yesturday

no worries buddy, i gathered that from reading this and i totally understand how you got carried away!!

[GF ORCE8]

hey guys, I can only recommend you a Motec M400. Is capable of DBW (ETB) and is really fantastic to work with!! PID Boost control, if you want wide band lambda control and maaaaaany maaany more. www.motec.com We use it in our GrN rally cars. Works great. Also with the 08 STI DBW throttle (fantastic for the bosst enhancement, as throttel pos can be changed without driver input!) just call motec UK and ask for Dave Rowe. He´s an absolute specialist, was involved in setting up the gobstopper Subaru, which won the time attack series. Tell him that Michael from Austria gave you the contact. he´ll be able to give you a good contact to a motec dealer, which will be able to supply you that stuff. Cheers Michael

Edited by GF ORCE8, 01 February 2009 - 01:53 AM.

[snowwhite]

hey guys,

I can only recommend you a Motec M400.
Is capable of DBW (ETB) and is really fantastic to work with!!
PID Boost control, if you want wide band lambda control and maaaaaany maaany more.

www.motec.com

We use it in our GrN rally cars.
Works great.
Also with the 08 STI DBW throttle (fantastic for the bosst enhancement, as throttel pos can be changed without driver input!)
just call motec UK and ask for Dave Rowe. He´s an absolute specialist, was involved in setting up the gobstopper Subaru, which won the time attack series. Tell him that Michael from Austria gave you the contact.
he´ll be able to give you a good contact to a motec dealer, which will be able to supply you that stuff.

Cheers Michael

We're using a Motec ECU at the moment on our R6, and its generally reguarded as a 'budget' system in the FS engine tuning circles It does the job dont get me wrong, the software is easy to use, and it hads loads of extras (can do 8 injectors, abs, launch control, gear shift control with auto-blip, live data logging, etc. etc.) but others are better, apparently

[petrolhead1]

You could also try Mark Harrison at Owen Developments. Motec themselves rate his work on their ECU's very highly.

[NickB787]

Jon did you get my email?

[alanoo]

Jon, take a look at Solaris ECU
http://www.solaris-ecs.co.uk/

All the native functions of a Motec, less than half the price + real traction control (with 4 wheel speed), and UK based apparently

[GF ORCE8]

We're using a Motec ECU at the moment on our R6, and its generally reguarded as a 'budget' system in the FS engine tuning circles It does the job dont get me wrong, the software is easy to use, and it hads loads of extras (can do 8 injectors, abs, launch control, gear shift control with auto-blip, live data logging, etc. etc.) but others are better, apparently

Hm compared to the previously mentioned systems, i do not see the benefits of e.g. autronic or pectel ecus?
OK when compared to bosch motorsport unit, i agree then it´s maybe budget.
Especially because you mentioned R6, also Moto GP teams use motec ecus. I doubt, that a budget system as you wrote above would find it´s way there.

Could you specify what is better in other systems?

A yeah, with a wheelspeed mux (multiplexer) you´d also have 4 speeds in the motec system if

BTW in the next months the new Mseries ecus will be launched, have the possibility of changing the software to suit your needs. You can have user defined nearly everything, write your own control algorithms, have a lot of logical functions (IF and IF, THEN thermo fan e.g.) etc. etc.

just for info; Autronic vs. Motec:
Motec M4 - 1 x 32 bit @ 33Mhz microprocessor
Autronic SM4 1 x 16 bit @ 20Mhz microprocessor


Michael

[slindborg]

We're using a Motec ECU at the moment on our R6, and its generally reguarded as a 'budget' system in the FS engine tuning circles It does the job dont get me wrong, the software is easy to use, and it hads loads of extras (can do 8 injectors, abs, launch control, gear shift control with auto-blip, live data logging, etc. etc.) but others are better, apparently

Hm compared to the previously mentioned systems, i do not see the benefits of e.g. autronic or pectel ecus?
OK when compared to bosch motorsport unit, i agree then it´s maybe budget.
Especially because you mentioned R6, also Moto GP teams use motec ecus. I doubt, that a budget system as you wrote above would find it´s way there.

Could you specify what is better in other systems?

A yeah, with a wheelspeed mux (multiplexer) you´d also have 4 speeds in the motec system if

BTW in the next months the new Mseries ecus will be launched, have the possibility of changing the software to suit your needs. You can have user defined nearly everything, write your own control algorithms, have a lot of logical functions (IF and IF, THEN thermo fan e.g.) etc. etc.

just for info; Autronic vs. Motec:
Motec M4 - 1 x 32 bit @ 33Mhz microprocessor
Autronic SM4 1 x 16 bit @ 20Mhz microprocessor


Michael

You are aware that the "bit" capacity of the ECU is largely a load of pointlessness arent you?....
We have made a few 32bit ECU's but they dont offer anything above what you can get from a 16bit architecture even running a 5 injections per combustion event tightly controlled Euro 5 emissions setup.

Bosch motorsport ecu's are in the same league as megasquirt as far as I'm concerned lol.


anyway, you could have the best specced ecu in the world, but its 99% down to the guy mapping (calibrating) it!

Autronic can run you a boost controler based on tps rather than revs etc to get you beautify driveability etc.
I'm not knocking Motec as they are good, but imho they are merely in the top 3 of the amateur/home tuning setups. Pectel/EFi/other ones that no one knows of are the big boys that most pros would use.

To be honest, some of the BEST ecu's on the market are simply OEM ones in many cars... the VXT ecu is pretty damn good, and just needs full access to make it as open as aftermarket (same as the 2.2 too, thats got a fabulous ecu on it)

[rik]

BTW in the next months the new Mseries ecus will be launched, have the possibility of changing the software to suit your needs. You can have user defined nearly everything, write your own control algorithms, have a lot of logical functions (IF and IF, THEN thermo fan e.g.) etc. etc.

got a link to the manufacturer on Mseries? I like that idea of coding

[GF ORCE8]

We're using a Motec ECU at the moment on our R6, and its generally reguarded as a 'budget' system in the FS engine tuning circles It does the job dont get me wrong, the software is easy to use, and it hads loads of extras (can do 8 injectors, abs, launch control, gear shift control with auto-blip, live data logging, etc. etc.) but others are better, apparently

Hm compared to the previously mentioned systems, i do not see the benefits of e.g. autronic or pectel ecus?
OK when compared to bosch motorsport unit, i agree then it´s maybe budget.
Especially because you mentioned R6, also Moto GP teams use motec ecus. I doubt, that a budget system as you wrote above would find it´s way there.

Could you specify what is better in other systems?

A yeah, with a wheelspeed mux (multiplexer) you´d also have 4 speeds in the motec system if

BTW in the next months the new Mseries ecus will be launched, have the possibility of changing the software to suit your needs. You can have user defined nearly everything, write your own control algorithms, have a lot of logical functions (IF and IF, THEN thermo fan e.g.) etc. etc.

just for info; Autronic vs. Motec:
Motec M4 - 1 x 32 bit @ 33Mhz microprocessor
Autronic SM4 1 x 16 bit @ 20Mhz microprocessor


Michael

You are aware that the "bit" capacity of the ECU is largely a load of pointlessness arent you?....
We have made a few 32bit ECU's but they dont offer anything above what you can get from a 16bit architecture even running a 5 injections per combustion event tightly controlled Euro 5 emissions setup.

Bosch motorsport ecu's are in the same league as megasquirt as far as I'm concerned lol.


anyway, you could have the best specced ecu in the world, but its 99% down to the guy mapping (calibrating) it!

Autronic can run you a boost controler based on tps rather than revs etc to get you beautify driveability etc.
I'm not knocking Motec as they are good, but imho they are merely in the top 3 of the amateur/home tuning setups. Pectel/EFi/other ones that no one knows of are the big boys that most pros would use.

To be honest, some of the BEST ecu's on the market are simply OEM ones in many cars... the VXT ecu is pretty damn good, and just needs full access to make it as open as aftermarket (same as the 2.2 too, thats got a fabulous ecu on it)

Well the bit capacity is definitely not pointless, as it simply shows you the possible (what does not mean, that it will be used however) accuracy regarding all digitally recorded sensor values.
As you might know, it tells how "fine" the value raster is, determining the biggest possible error between real value and measured value.

Well and saying about bosch motorsport ecus, that are winning ALMS, 24h LeMans with the R8 Audis (petrol or diesel doesn´t matter), are on a level with megasquirt....
Sorry that makes me laugh

I did not point out that of course it is 99% the problem what do you make out of your possibilities, as that should be clear for everyone!
Same with driving, i can have a Carrera GT, if i don´t know how to drive a car fast, than vxts will screw me up

in the Motec you can use any input to use a s a reference for boost control.
And this felxibility of motecs is really nice to have.
Don´t get me wrong, i´d never say that motec a re the best ecus, and all others are sh...
but definitely they are one of the best, especially when coming to usability. their software is fantastic to use!

Also i agree that OEM ECUs are a great deal on performance.
however, they are not made to get changed and tuned.
that´s also the reason, why OEM engine setups are very often done on dynos with ECUs like Motec, Pectel, Magneti Marelli just to name few, and the results transferred to the OEM units.
And i did not source that out of my dreams, in fact we supply a lot of such projects with ECUs.

Cheers, Michael

[GF ORCE8]

http://www.motec.com...stnews/new2009/

Still very little info unfortunately.
Should be available from 2nd quarter of 09

however, the coding possibility will not be given to everyone!!
normally need to be a dealer and do special seminars.

Michael

However, now i´ll stop OT, as this is not a ECU thread only

Again in the end it´s 99% what you as the user make out of your possibilities.
but being the best ecu specialist in the world, you still can´t polish a turd

[slindborg]

Well the bit capacity is definitely not pointless, as it simply shows you the possible (what does not mean, that it will be used however) accuracy regarding all digitally recorded sensor values.
As you might know, it tells how "fine" the value raster is, determining the biggest possible error between real value and measured value.

Well and saying about bosch motorsport ecus, that are winning ALMS, 24h LeMans with the R8 Audis (petrol or diesel doesn´t matter), are on a level with megasquirt....
Sorry that makes me laugh

I did not point out that of course it is 99% the problem what do you make out of your possibilities, as that should be clear for everyone!
Same with driving, i can have a Carrera GT, if i don´t know how to drive a car fast, than vxts will screw me up

in the Motec you can use any input to use a s a reference for boost control.
And this felxibility of motecs is really nice to have.
Don´t get me wrong, i´d never say that motec a re the best ecus, and all others are sh...
but definitely they are one of the best, especially when coming to usability. their software is fantastic to use!

Also i agree that OEM ECUs are a great deal on performance.
however, they are not made to get changed and tuned.
that´s also the reason, why OEM engine setups are very often done on dynos with ECUs like Motec, Pectel, Magneti Marelli just to name few, and the results transferred to the OEM units.
And i did not source that out of my dreams, in fact we supply a lot of such projects with ECUs.

Cheers, Michael

We tend to simply release a development variant of our ECU so that the OEM's can calibrate on dynos/on road/on the bench etc. Infact with a TINY tweak, a production ECU of ours can be made to be 75% as "mappable" as the development units

Bosch MS units might well be on race series winning cars, but they certainly arent all that when it comes down to the software in them, which is a shame bearing in mind how hard they bugger you for the cost lol.

tis all good fun.

[GF ORCE8]

Well the bit capacity is definitely not pointless, as it simply shows you the possible (what does not mean, that it will be used however) accuracy regarding all digitally recorded sensor values.
As you might know, it tells how "fine" the value raster is, determining the biggest possible error between real value and measured value.

Well and saying about bosch motorsport ecus, that are winning ALMS, 24h LeMans with the R8 Audis (petrol or diesel doesn´t matter), are on a level with megasquirt....
Sorry that makes me laugh

I did not point out that of course it is 99% the problem what do you make out of your possibilities, as that should be clear for everyone!
Same with driving, i can have a Carrera GT, if i don´t know how to drive a car fast, than vxts will screw me up

in the Motec you can use any input to use a s a reference for boost control.
And this felxibility of motecs is really nice to have.
Don´t get me wrong, i´d never say that motec a re the best ecus, and all others are sh...
but definitely they are one of the best, especially when coming to usability. their software is fantastic to use!

Also i agree that OEM ECUs are a great deal on performance.
however, they are not made to get changed and tuned.
that´s also the reason, why OEM engine setups are very often done on dynos with ECUs like Motec, Pectel, Magneti Marelli just to name few, and the results transferred to the OEM units.
And i did not source that out of my dreams, in fact we supply a lot of such projects with ECUs.

Cheers, Michael

We tend to simply release a development variant of our ECU so that the OEM's can calibrate on dynos/on road/on the bench etc. Infact with a TINY tweak, a production ECU of ours can be made to be 75% as "mappable" as the development units

Bosch MS units might well be on race series winning cars, but they certainly arent all that when it comes down to the software in them, which is a shame bearing in mind how hard they bugger you for the cost lol.

tis all good fun.

Sure the OEM can be made adjustable, but anyway normally you don´t reach the flexibility of units assigned for a custom application.
Not because it´s not capable of that hardware wise, but simply because you would have to put loaaads of effort into the development of software as handy as the replacement standalone ones.
i think you will agree on that point.

And for me a user friendly package (of course combined with a hardware capable of thenstuff you need and in a wa you need it) is worth a LOT! as it provides you being abel to concetrate on te point you have that small box inside their: working out a good setup!

Honestly, never worked on Boschs myself, but anyway comparing a Bosch MS unit to a megasquirt is really not from this world...

that were my 2 cents (€ cents by the way haha) on standalones

Well and now i think it´s time for

Thinking a lot of getting a N/A for good money, and going the SC route with a standalone system, for the money i´d put in buying a turbo


Cheers Michael

[Jon]

Jon did you get my email?

Hi Nick I've had the weekend off, I'm back in tomorrow I will have a look then. Cheers