103 replies to this topic

[VXT Tim]

A group buy offer to significantly reduce the cost of the ic may also go down well with the punters

agreed, as I said before I'm not doubting it's ability I would prefer to go down this route, I just think the price is too close to the charge coolers which work better on our cars due to the limited airflow into the 'ears'.

[Mangham54]

I don't really understand this, when I spoke to Liam we had a lengthy chat about not using a C/C, the main point being if you could achieve similar power it would take away a very expensive part required under current accepted methods, which is the main reason people stop at "stage 2".
So if it's only going to be a few 100 quid cheaper, I can't see it being so attractive. I suppose you would save on fitting as well but still. Uprated I/C's are already available for £600 ish.
I like Liam and enjoyed chatting to him, he talk's a lot of common sense, but it either has to out perform the C/C or be a lot cheaper. I mean if I could have a "stage 4" for £1200-£1500 less than the comp. (fitted) I would be prepared to accept a little less power. You have to offer something quite special IMO, Courtenay's are well respected and have been since my youth when they were doing 1.8 OHC turbo conversions, people trust them, and thats worth a lot.

How about this,
The new MMG stage 4 successfully running on 4 cars and one presently in the workshop.

Includes:
Air box modification, 3inch Turbo intake pipe(cold side of turbo),2.5 inch Top Hat, Exhaust (full 3 inch system with 100 or 200 cell cat), VXR Hybrid Turbo charger, VXR High Flow Injectors, MMG H.P. Intercooler, Stage 4 cool running plugs, MMG Stage 4 remap, all relevant pipe work and fittings.

Price £3999.00 FITTED.
Liam

Liam that actually sounds like a cracking deal, pity I run an NA.

Having been in a stage 2 tubby I would be intrigued to know what a Stage 4 would be like.

[paulcoop]

And its mine that is in the work shop as we speak ..... Would be great I can get in the 300bhp club Its going to be a monster

[turbobob]

A group buy offer to significantly reduce the cost of the ic may also go down well with the punters

agreed, as I said before I'm not doubting it's ability I would prefer to go down this route, I just think the price is too close to the charge coolers which work better on our cars due to the limited airflow into the 'ears'.

Actually Tim I disagree. I think the Intercooler is the better option. It is more efficient. There is more than sufficient airflow through the ears. And besides with the chargecoolers, not only is there an additional weight gain, but you also run the risk of heat saturation, i.e. the water will only go up to a certain point (100 degrees C) and will not absorb any more heat which doesn't happen with an intercooler.

At no point is there going to be the issue of the intercooler not dissipating the heat. The only time you won't get insufficient airflow is when you are stationary, and lets face it, you aren't ragging it when stationary. Plus the standard intercooler is sufficient, let alone a seriously better intercooler.

Finally the cost of the intercooler. How many people are actually going to just purchase an intercooler or a charge cooler? The whole point of either is so that you can significantly improve your car, i.e. stage 3, 4 or 5. And in which case you are likely to get the stage 3, 4 or 5 package. So looking at the overall cost (based on one of the previous posts) the better (and cheaper) option is the MMG route.

Still this thread is off track, My original post was about thh MMG stage 2 dyno

[Nev]

Thats good value for money Liam

Edited by Nev, 21 June 2010 - 08:53 PM.

[Crabash]

I don't really understand this, when I spoke to Liam we had a lengthy chat about not using a C/C, the main point being if you could achieve similar power it would take away a very expensive part required under current accepted methods, which is the main reason people stop at "stage 2".
So if it's only going to be a few 100 quid cheaper, I can't see it being so attractive. I suppose you would save on fitting as well but still. Uprated I/C's are already available for £600 ish.
I like Liam and enjoyed chatting to him, he talk's a lot of common sense, but it either has to out perform the C/C or be a lot cheaper. I mean if I could have a "stage 4" for £1200-£1500 less than the comp. (fitted) I would be prepared to accept a little less power. You have to offer something quite special IMO, Courtenay's are well respected and have been since my youth when they were doing 1.8 OHC turbo conversions, people trust them, and thats worth a lot.

How about this,
The new MMG stage 4 successfully running on 4 cars and one presently in the workshop.

Includes:
Air box modification, 3inch Turbo intake pipe(cold side of turbo),2.5 inch Top Hat, Exhaust (full 3 inch system with 100 or 200 cell cat), VXR Hybrid Turbo charger, VXR High Flow Injectors, MMG H.P. Intercooler, Stage 4 cool running plugs, MMG Stage 4 remap, all relevant pipe work and fittings.

Price £3999.00 FITTED.
Liam

In that case you can expect to see me for maybe even more than a stage 4, unfortunately not for a while as I've just blown 7K on nitron's, seats, wheels, 888's, ARB, toe rods, harnesses and many, many other things in preperation for quite a large power hike. Need to save more after my German holiday in July. I saved for a year to do that

[turbobob]

Thats good value for money Liam

I don't really understand this, when I spoke to Liam we had a lengthy chat about not using a C/C, the main point being if you could achieve similar power it would take away a very expensive part required under current accepted methods, which is the main reason people stop at "stage 2".
So if it's only going to be a few 100 quid cheaper, I can't see it being so attractive. I suppose you would save on fitting as well but still. Uprated I/C's are already available for £600 ish.
I like Liam and enjoyed chatting to him, he talk's a lot of common sense, but it either has to out perform the C/C or be a lot cheaper. I mean if I could have a "stage 4" for £1200-£1500 less than the comp. (fitted) I would be prepared to accept a little less power. You have to offer something quite special IMO, Courtenay's are well respected and have been since my youth when they were doing 1.8 OHC turbo conversions, people trust them, and thats worth a lot.

How about this,
The new MMG stage 4 successfully running on 4 cars and one presently in the workshop.

Includes:
Air box modification, 3inch Turbo intake pipe(cold side of turbo),2.5 inch Top Hat, Exhaust (full 3 inch system with 100 or 200 cell cat), VXR Hybrid Turbo charger, VXR High Flow Injectors, MMG H.P. Intercooler, Stage 4 cool running plugs, MMG Stage 4 remap, all relevant pipe work and fittings.

Price £3999.00 FITTED.
Liam

In that case you can expect to see me for maybe even more than a stage 4, unfortunately not for a while as I've just blown 7K on nitron's, seats, wheels, 888's, ARB, toe rods, harnesses and many, many other things in preperation for quite a large power hike. Need to save more after my German holiday in July. I saved for a year to do that

Thats some serious wonga you've forked out on your car recently!!!

[Crabash]

Thats some serious wonga you've forked out on your car recently!!!

It is and I'm disgusted with myself

Trouble is I don't trust anyone to fit the stuff anymore, and I only have 3 weekends to get it all done before I head to Germany.

[turbobob]

Thats some serious wonga you've forked out on your car recently!!!

It is and I'm disgusted with myself

Trouble is I don't trust anyone to fit the stuff anymore, and I only have 3 weekends to get it all done before I head to Germany.

Believe me, Liam at MMG is extremely trustworthy. There aren't many people who I would let loose on my LX, but Liam I trust completely.

[Crabash]

I'm sure he is, it's just lately I had work done by places with very good rep and although mostly very minor things I just think I would have taken more care. Also some of the jobs I did that needed that little bit extra doing to get them just right, I wonder how many places would spend the extra time like I did?

[Mangham54]

I'm sure he is, it's just lately I had work done by places with very good rep and although mostly very minor things I just think I would have taken more care. Also some of the jobs I did that needed that little bit extra doing to get them just right, I wonder how many places would spend the extra time like I did?

I would say name and shame... but there are a couple of places in the NE that are starting to get some bad write ups of late so would be yet another nail in the coffin for them.

NB. I would however appreciate a PM with some "don't go to.... because..." as I am coming back up to MOT time and with the oil cooler gasket supply shortage I don't want to be taken off the road for such a minor balls up (it cost me dearly did my last MOT - £3k's worth of holiday plus a further £1k on the car trying to get to the bottom of the issue and the subsequent replacement of parts.)

[Crabash]

Well actually one of the more serious probs was a lock nut coming loose on the rear toe rod at Mallory only days after Hofmann's did my suspension, lucky for me I noticed the car became a little oversteery and investigated. Another was SPS did various general servicing inc. cam belt, water pump, header tank, car developed a water leak a week later, traced myself to a hose not properly secured. Makes me doubt attention to detail though. Then there was the fitting of the ARB, done myself but I spent quite some time making it turn how it should, I'm fairly sure most places would have just fit it and thought I would know no different.

Edited by Crabash, 22 June 2010 - 09:22 PM.

[Mangham54]

SPS were the only ones really holding any kudos at the moment.

JPS....
Formula 1...... ?????? (Fair advice given.... but no-one else seems to have given a or )
Nidd Vale (Harrogate).... Cost me £4k (partly my fault for not spotting the oil leak and dealing with it quick enough... all fixed before XMAS)

However a NE owners workshop could be interesting... But that is for another day.


Sorry for redirecting the thread!

[Crabash]

Niddvale..... 4 resprays and still didn't get it right!!!!!!

[Mangham54]

Niddvale..... 4 resprays and still didn't get it right!!!!!!

Black is a bastard of a colour to colour match though

I have seen some horrors.... At work we have a MV training centre and the first time they spray up metallic panels on their own cars is hilarious (each one a different way up and therefore the metal fillings are in different directions).

They are so happy until they come out from underneath the Flourescent lights into daylight and quickly stick it in reverse.

[Crabash]

Yeah trouble is it was the gouge under the paint, then the overspray in the buttresses, etc etc. Took it off them in the end. Sorry for going off topic.

Edited by Crabash, 22 June 2010 - 09:49 PM.

[goodeg]

I don't really understand this, when I spoke to Liam we had a lengthy chat about not using a C/C, the main point being if you could achieve similar power it would take away a very expensive part required under current accepted methods, which is the main reason people stop at "stage 2".
So if it's only going to be a few 100 quid cheaper, I can't see it being so attractive. I suppose you would save on fitting as well but still. Uprated I/C's are already available for £600 ish.
I like Liam and enjoyed chatting to him, he talk's a lot of common sense, but it either has to out perform the C/C or be a lot cheaper. I mean if I could have a "stage 4" for £1200-£1500 less than the comp. (fitted) I would be prepared to accept a little less power. You have to offer something quite special IMO, Courtenay's are well respected and have been since my youth when they were doing 1.8 OHC turbo conversions, people trust them, and thats worth a lot.

How about this,
The new MMG stage 4 successfully running on 4 cars and one presently in the workshop.

Includes:
Air box modification, 3inch Turbo intake pipe(cold side of turbo),2.5 inch Top Hat, Exhaust (full 3 inch system with 100 or 200 cell cat), VXR Hybrid Turbo charger, VXR High Flow Injectors, MMG H.P. Intercooler, Stage 4 cool running plugs, MMG Stage 4 remap, all relevant pipe work and fittings.

Price £3999.00 FITTED.
Liam

Would an uprated clutch not also be required as people have had the standard one slipping with current stage 2 power/torque levels.

[turbobob]

Would an uprated clutch not also be required as people have had the standard one slipping with current stage 2 power/torque levels.

I believe an uprated clutch and uprated flywheels are optional, as is the same with Courtnays but I stand to be corrected.

[goodeg]

Uprated clutch is required with CS4 according to Courtenays website, they just have prices with/without incase you already have one fitted.

[John Boy]

I drove the MMG stage 5 to Le Mans this year in 27c heat and in trafic around the curcuit, I never saw my inlet temp go above 40c. Traveling in my group was a friend running the MMG stage 4 also with the High performance MMG intercooler. The same car had just completed the 6 hour Mallory indurance event and had no issues. For me the on road performance and results speak for themselves.

I have to say that if the efficencies stated are correct this looks an incredibly tempting option to the charge cooler. Even at 1k, I would imagine that it is a much easier DIY instal than a CC. Compare the price of an installed cc at over 2k, to a DIY 1k IC and its a no brainer. Plus the IC has no moving parts or electrics to fail.

1k is still pretty punchy for an IC, and a bit of a drop would make it much even more tempting.

Having said that stage 2 is the end of my engine mods, due to the diminished returns against cost, this may push further power hikes back onto the agenda for my VX.

John