103 replies to this topic

[Crazyfrog (Fab)]

Its a VX turbo ...

.......... mine is a vx itb's

[iVXT]

Ok guys sorry to change the thread back to the original mmg stage 2 stuff...

I'm impressed with the power graph posted on the first page. Is the owner on this site & would be interested in the verdict on it?

Also not sure I can justify the stage 2 this soon after buying my vxt & have seen stuff on mmg stage 1 with great power gains but not as much torque. Does the car sound much different with the stage 1 precat removal & airbox mods? I must admit a bit sad at lack of exhaust note.

What I'm getting at (bear with me) is does the extra £1200 or so quid for the exhaust system which looks an impressive bit of kit really make a huge difference to final result & or sound of car compared to the stage 1.

I guess I'd really like stage 2 but would be grateful of your opinions as £'s not growing on my tree atm.

Its probably worth a call to Liam at MMG to discuss your budget vs best options to to you. He's a really decent guy and isn't going to rip you off by telling you need x, y & z.

But the pre cat replacement, airbox mods and Milltek I have sound MUCH better than the standard set up

Thanks for the reply.

I think Liam may be worth ringing for a chat then as you suggest.

I'm still curious as to what soundtrack I'd get with the precat, airbox mods & remap alone without going for the exhaust system as you have?

Any ideas?

[spuk87]

I'm still curious as to what soundtrack I'd get with the precat, airbox mods & remap alone without going for the exhaust system as you have?

Any ideas?

I've got exactly that- precat replacement, airbox trumpet removed (no holes drilled though) and MMG stage 1 remap (243bhp and 224lb-ft). In terms of performance I seem to easily out accelerate VXRs now and would imagine it is as good as most stage 2s, apart from there being less power low down. From 4.5k revs up I think they're pretty evenly matched.

The airbox mod makes induction and turbo noise much more noticeable, but don't remember it making much exhaust note difference.

The precat/remap makes the car sound much throatier at low revs but I don't think it affects high revs very much (IMO). I had it done 4 months ago though so can't remember what it was like before.

There is a good comparison video here.

HTH.

[turbobob]

Its a VX turbo ...

.......... mine is a vx itb's

Trust you

I'm still curious as to what soundtrack I'd get with the precat, airbox mods & remap alone without going for the exhaust system as you have?

Any ideas?

I've got exactly that- precat replacement, airbox trumpet removed (no holes drilled though) and MMG stage 1 remap (243bhp and 224lb-ft). In terms of performance I seem to easily out accelerate VXRs now and would imagine it is as good as most stage 2s, apart from there being less power low down. From 4.5k revs up I think they're pretty evenly matched.

The airbox mod makes induction and turbo noise much more noticeable, but don't remember it making much exhaust note difference.

The precat/remap makes the car sound much throatier at low revs but I don't think it affects high revs very much (IMO). I had it done 4 months ago though so can't remember what it was like before.

There is a good comparison video here.

HTH.

I was going to suggest that Spuk87 had the setup you were talking about and was going to suggest you PM him, but he's already beaten me to it

[iVXT]

So looking at the raw figures you guys are quoting: mmg stage 1 gives 243bhp & 224lb/ft mmg stage 2 gives 258bhp & 291lb/ft all of these could vary a little between vxt's though Which (cogs whiring) makes a difference of 15bhp & 67lb/ft from stage 1 to stage 2. The costs on mmg's site are stage 1 £475 & stage 2 £1775 which is £1300 difference. Big torque improvement from stage 2 but big £'s diff so a tricky one. Any ideas welcome then I'll speak to Liam in the near future?

[spuk87]

I was going to suggest that Spuk87 had the setup you were talking about and was going to suggest you PM him, but he's already beaten me to it

mmg stage 1 gives 243bhp & 224lb/ft
mmg stage 2 gives 258bhp & 291lb/ft

all of these could vary a little between vxt's though

Which (cogs whiring) makes a difference of 15bhp & 67lb/ft from stage 1 to stage 2.

The costs on mmg's site are stage 1 £475 & stage 2 £1775 which is £1300 difference.

Big torque improvement from stage 2 but big £'s diff so a tricky one.

It's worth noting that official figures are 225bhp for stage 1 and 250bhp for stage 2 but we both seem to have done well with our cars. I think stage 1 does not include the precat removal as standard, that is a £100 extra (but undoubtedly the best value for money upgrade). I may be wrong about this though as Liam did say he was considering making the precat mod part of the stage 1 upgrade.

I would also love stage 2 but personally just don't think an extra ~£1300 is worth it for ~15bhp more and a bit of noise compared with the initial £475 for 43bhp (in my case). It's also worth pointing out that I had my dyno run done with ordinary petrol in the car (not V-power or anything special) so realistically I've got more torque and power on proper high octane fuel, I'd guess at least 245bhp but could well be 250 I suspect. The first time I filled up after the remap I put V-power in and the low-end power was significantly better, 3rd gear felt like 2nd gear used to at any given speed.

[iVXT]

You have done amazingly well for a stage 1 then. On his site it says includes precat in stage 1 @ £475 so sounds even better value now. Do you know what make of precat he uses just out of interest? Also @ turbobob is the car whose stage 2 remap you posted a member on here? Thanks again for the info so far.

[spuk87]

Yep, though I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people get those sort of gains. Sounds like Liam has done what he was considering and included the pre-cat in the stage 1- £475 is excellent value for money. Courtenay charge £500 excluding pre-cat if I recall.

The pre-cat is actually removed and replaced with a straight-through pipe which Liam gets fabricated for him- not sure who by. The pre-cat isn't legally required in this country and only works while the engine is cold anyway.

As far as I know that graph is actually Turbobob's car.

[turbobob]

As far as I know that graph is actually Turbobob's car.

Says who?

[iVXT]

Yep, though I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people get those sort of gains. Sounds like Liam has done what he was considering and included the pre-cat in the stage 1- £475 is excellent value for money. Courtenay charge £500 excluding pre-cat if I recall.

The pre-cat is actually removed and replaced with a straight-through pipe which Liam gets fabricated for him- not sure who by. The pre-cat isn't legally required in this country and only works while the engine is cold anyway.

As far as I know that graph is actually Turbobob's car.

Thanks for the info. Does sound a good price then. Think your right that Courtenay is £500 for remap on it's own. I have known John from there for many years from when he just worked there & he's doing a great job with the company it's just about double the time to get there from me as mmg would be. Although I would travel the extra if the good reports about mmg didn't keep coming.

It really helps that you guys have all good things to say about Liam's place. I've always been a bit picky who I let work on my cars.

[rob999]

Have you been to Liam's again yet Bob to try those different numbers?

[iVXT]

Tried to ring Liam today but just kept getting an answerphone. Strangly when I looked today on his website to get his phone number the price has shot up from £475 to £734 & now also says it excludes vat as well so that's £862! It's a seperate remap option now called 'sage 1+ T260' (not my typo) which the other day was all included under the stage 1 @ £475 that I was going to book in for. Not good.....

[VXT Tim]

£862.45 !

[chrisgold]

http://www.mmgperfor...php/38/stage-1-

EXCLUSIVE MMG SOFTWARE UPGRADE / DYNO READINGS BEFORE AND AFTER / INCREASES POWER 225 to 240 BHP

MMG stage 1+ remap
Pre cat removal pipe
A set cool running plugs
Air box modification

£575.00 (excl vat)

Cheap again!


Or just go all out first time stage 4....

Edited by chrisgold, 25 August 2010 - 06:59 PM.

[spuk87]

Stage 4 nearly a grand cheaper than Courtenays as well (once you put the VAT on)...awfully tempting

[turbobob]

http://www.mmgperfor...php/38/stage-1-

EXCLUSIVE MMG SOFTWARE UPGRADE / DYNO READINGS BEFORE AND AFTER / INCREASES POWER 225 to 240 BHP

MMG stage 1+ remap
Pre cat removal pipe
A set cool running plugs
Air box modification

£575.00 (excl vat)

Cheap again!


Or just go all out first time stage 4....

I think there was a bit of a typo on the web site before. Its always best to call Liam to get accurate pricing as I think the web site is still being developed.

Stage 4 nearly a grand cheaper than Courtenays as well (once you put the VAT on)...awfully tempting

just wish I had the £££ to do it. I'd have NO hesitation choosing the MMG stage 4

[iVXT]

Interesting the price has dropped now. Yeah maybe a typo. Cheers for the info.

[siztenboots]

Even at stage 2 , if you are running your standard clutch on a high torque map it is only a matter of time before you will get clutch slip. I am surprised that changing the transmission fluid is ignored.

[spuk87]

Even at stage 2 , if you are running your standard clutch on a high torque map it is only a matter of time before you will get clutch slip. I am surprised that changing the transmission fluid is ignored.

Courtenay don't mention it either:

CS 4**
Exclusive Courtenay Sport Software Upgrade, airbox modifications, Full stainless steel 3" 76mm exhaust system (including front pipe & 200cpi), Bespoke Charge Cooler System (see below for full details), Z20LEH (Astra VXR) Hybrid Turbo charger with stronger cast manifold, Uprated Actuator (not VXR actuator), Uprated Higher Flow Injectors, Rolling Road Tune
'Competition' Clutch Required if not already fitted.

[Duncan VXR]

Sure fluid change could be completed but if your going to bleed the clutch fluid you might as well do the brakes also and not everyone would want or need this and of course is going to be an extra cost Agree that stg 2 if there is a lot of torque it is a matter of time DG