74 replies to this topic

[VXT Tim]

Interesting, I am ordering a toe link kit today. So Partrige, with hindsight what would you buy/do? Thanks.

Edited by VXT Tim, 29 October 2013 - 10:20 AM.

[ee601]

Interesting, I am ordering a toe link kit today. So Partrige, with hindsight what would you buy/do? Thanks.

Yes indeed - does it need to be a Spitfire kit (if one can be found)??

[VXT Tim]

Interesting, I am ordering a toe link kit today. So Partrige, with hindsight what would you buy/do? Thanks.

Yes indeed - does it need to be a Spitfire kit (if one can be found)??

The spitfire kit is the more expensive one available from Elise shop. £440 odd from memory.

[Pidgeon]

Interesting, I am ordering a toe link kit today. So Partrige, with hindsight what would you buy/do? Thanks.

 

Good question.

 

My car had covered nearly 100K hard miles, when I changed.  The first 25K had largely been on sticky rubber, thereafter sticky rubber on track only.

 

Car was on standard tie rods throughout this period and required no maintenance.

 

I changed them because I was changing all wearing components and perceived wisdom is that the standard tie rods are not strong enough to cope with track use on good tyres.  However, three respondents on this thread have had problems with aftermarket Rose jointed kits.

 

My understanding is that failures of the standard toe links are preceeded by the ball joints seizing.  I've allways put a spanner on mine to ensure they are free (simply rotate the rod a few degrees either way on the joints).

 

I'll have a look at failures on SELOC, but it sounds like the standard rods are the answer!

[fiveoclock]

I have the EP kit on the race car and its been fine all season, not had to change the ends

 

http://www.elisepart...l-toe-link-kit/

 

[Winstar]

 

Interesting, I am ordering a toe link kit today. So Partrige, with hindsight what would you buy/do? Thanks.

 

Good question.

 

My car had covered nearly 100K hard miles, when I changed.  The first 25K had largely been on sticky rubber, thereafter sticky rubber on track only.

 

Car was on standard tie rods throughout this period and required no maintenance.

 

I changed them because I was changing all wearing components and perceived wisdom is that the standard tie rods are not strong enough to cope with track use on good tyres.  However, three respondents on this thread have had problems with aftermarket Rose jointed kits.

 

My understanding is that failures of the standard toe links are preceeded by the ball joints seizing.  I've allways put a spanner on mine to ensure they are free (simply rotate the rod a few degrees either way on the joints).

 

I'll have a look at failures on SELOC, but it sounds like the standard rods are the answer!

 

 

 I had numerous rod ends replaced with play on my ES/spitfire kit despite the car doing very little mileage and only a couple of TD's  

 

I caught an OEM one that would have failed, the nut on the inner end had vibrated loose enough to loose the preload and had started to bend threaded section which would have fatigued. IMO the best solution is the OEM one that are treated as service items that need to be inspected, tightened at least yearly and replaced at intervals.

[VXT Tim]

Is there not an issue with the availability of OEM inner/outer joints?

I seem to recall threads where people have had them on back order for months.

[Pidgeon]

OK, a trawl through SELOC can be summed up with the following;

 

In a recent poll on here uprated toe links had a slightly higher failure rate than standard

Room for statistical error due to numbers , but youd have expected the failures to be zero? Of course it may be due to more upgraded links being used on track days.

 

 

 

Two regular and aggressive track drivers I know had done 50+ days on good rubber and standard links without problem.  When a failure does occur, the affected party tends to make a lot of noise.

 

The only conclusion I can make is that 'uprated' replacement kits are no guarantee and appear to have additional problems.

 

I recall that I had bought a set of originals off Duncan, but my car was in the crossover period and they were not correct, hence I bought a kit as I was short of time.  I think I will revert to originals.

[VXT Tim]

I find this specific area of the car quite frustrating not sure how much is down to

When a failure does occur, the affected party tends to make a lot of noise.

 

 

 

[ee601]

Crikey, what to do...? It's frustrating that there isn't a clear solution... My issue wasn't strength related at all, but due to the locking nut coming undone I believe... Yet others have had similar and other problems with other makes of uprated kits.

[VXT Tim]

What to do indeed!!!!!!

[Gedi]

Maybe switch the regular lock nuts to something like a nyloc or a distorted thread locknut, and use plenty of threadlock?

 

Other than that, you could damage the thread a short distance past where the lock nut would sit. This would allow some minor alterations in the future, but never allow the nut to hugely loosen allowing it to wildly toe out.

[Pidgeon]

We can't overlook that Lotus and GM were content to sell cars with Yokohamas and the standard toe link.  I don't know what arrangement later Exiges had, but the S1 and VXR wore the standard kit and I am not aware of any failures.

 

I would not change the nuts, Lotus recalled some cars because of an incorrect thread, I suspect threading quality with the LH and RH threads is the cause of some loosening.

[ghand]

Two nuts, locked up with thread lock should do the job

[Mr Apex]

Has there been any discussion about how many of the snap oversteer events have happened to cars with limited slip diffs? LSDs are great for traction, particularly in the dry, but with a high power, short wheelbase car, I can see that breaking traction with both rear wheels on a slippery surface would cause sudden uncontrollable snap oversteer. I experienced it once in a Caterham Superlight and really struggled to catch it. At least with a regular diff, if one wheel spins up, the other retains directional control. 

[ee601]

Two nuts, locked up with thread lock should do the job

Yup. That's rather what I was thinking...

[Bumblebee]

Has there been any discussion about how many of the snap oversteer events have happened to cars with limited slip diffs? LSDs are great for traction, particularly in the dry, but with a high power, short wheelbase car, I can see that breaking traction with both rear wheels on a slippery surface would cause sudden uncontrollable snap oversteer. I experienced it once in a Caterham Superlight and really struggled to catch it. At least with a regular diff, if one wheel spins up, the other retains directional control.

This was my thinking as well

[Gedi]

Not really sure how LSD is relevant to the discussion. Our cars don't have it and it's not particularly useful unless you're into hill climbing.

[Winstar]

Two nuts, locked up with thread lock should do the job

 

Nord-lock washers are far better for vibration resistance

Edited by Winstar, 01 November 2013 - 12:42 PM.

[slindborg]

 

Two nuts, locked up with thread lock should do the job

 

Nord-lock washers are far better for vibration resistance

 

 

 

at snap oversteer....... fanny

I had a random tracking setup (I hate the term geo as its bullshit), the car was great but when getting near the limit it would simply let go and be unrecoverable (this was not snap as I had to provoke it). I then had some more sensible settings put in and it would let go far earlier but could be recovered.