388 replies to this topic

[Exmantaa]

Do you have a wideband installed for the top end mapping? (or for the rollers; have a strategy how they map OBD with a WB feedback?)

Low load & cruise mapping is best done on the road, as that is how the ecu normally operates with the narrowband closed loop mode.

[1cobrav8]

Do you have a wideband installed for the top end mapping? (or for the rollers; have a strategy how they map OBD with a WB feedback?) Low load & cruise mapping is best done on the road, as that is how the ecu normally operates with the narrowband closed loop mode.

I've got an aem wideband lambda system to fit to enable correct mapping

[stu8v]

On a serious note. Why do you bugger about with all this fuel learn and stuff? How come you guys don't go straight to a mapper and have it sorted once and for all? Surely it would give instant results.

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

its because we have bought Obd tuner The main advantage of it is we and the software map the car our selves without the need to pay someone to do it It's just one of the processes required to get the mapping right on the car when using obdtuner

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

Also a mapper will always be restricted with time Time on a map is what makes it better

Edited by CHILL Gone DUTCH, 03 July 2016 - 03:12 PM.

[Ormes]

Not trying to be contentious when I say this, more trying to understand the scope of the software, but... surely what a mapper brings is experience?... with the software only being as good as the rules that somebody codes?  I would have thought that good software + good mapper is better than good software being operated by an enthusiastic ameteur?

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

Not trying to be contentious when I say this, more trying to understand the scope of the software, but... surely what a mapper brings is experience?... with the software only being as good as the rules that somebody codes?  I would have thought that good software + good mapper is better than good software being operated by an enthusiastic ameteur?

You are not wrong But it's a dam good tool to learn The more you do it the more expierience you get Plus I stand by my comment a mapper will always be limited by time restriction and costs

Edited by CHILL Gone DUTCH, 03 July 2016 - 03:36 PM.

[Ormes]

[Exmantaa]

Best is to think of the (any) mapping split in 2; the low load & cruising part and the power part.

 

Most mappers on a dyno tend to spend most time on the power part, as that is what the customer wants to see on the final dyno graph. Adjust AFR and timing for max results and done. (This part is best done with a Wideband sensor feedback.)

However, getting the low and part throttle part spot on takes lot more time and that can become a costly business if you have to pay for dyno time. Especially if you start with a heavily modified engine.

 

Here OBD starts to shine, as this low load & cruise part can be perfectly learned with OBD by the ecu itself on the road, as that is exactly what it does during normal driving; measure the AFR ratio with the O2 sensor in closed loop and adjust fuel trims accordingly. (only there is a limit on the amount of trimming available; 20% max or so.)

OBD fuel learning does nothing more than swiching the ECU in closed loop and let is sort itself out in closed loop mode @14.7AFR. After learning it looks to the measured fuel trim correction for every cell and then correct the fuel cells accordingly. With a few learn passes it can so correct fuelling so the normal fuel trims are withing a few % spot on.

 

Off course you can simulate the road driving part perfectly on a dyno and with a good mapper even improve. But keep in mind that OBD is tailored for road mapping, so doing the process with OBD on a dyno will need some thought out strategy from the mapper.  

 

 

[Ormes]

Interesting, thanks Exmantaa

[1cobrav8]

So I couldn't resist any longer and finally took the car out tonight for the first time to do some gentle running in and low load fuel learning. All I can say is I'm seriously excited to get this thing ran in and mapped. The torque feels huge and I've not even been pushing the throttle or revs much for obvious reasons!!! Not smiled like this about a car for a long long time!

[haggi961]

Nice one and looking forward to seeing what comes of this 😃

[Nev]

So I couldn't resist any longer and finally took the car out tonight for the first time to do some gentle running in and low load fuel learning. All I can say is I'm seriously excited to get this thing ran in and mapped. The torque feels huge and I've not even been pushing the throttle or revs much for obvious reasons!!! Not smiled like this about a car for a long long time!

 

Whats the expected torque "guestimated" to be from this new beast?

Edited by Nev, 07 July 2016 - 10:38 PM.

[jules_s]

Sounds epic, 

[Exmantaa]

So I couldn't resist any longer and finally took the car out tonight for the first time to do some gentle running in and low load fuel learning. All I can say is I'm seriously excited to get this thing ran in and mapped. The torque feels huge and I've not even been pushing the throttle or revs much for obvious reasons!!! Not smiled like this about a car for a long long time!

 

Try loading up the rings with short throttle bursts and engine braking during this process to properly bed in the piston rings. No light load constant rpm running-in on a highway please...

[1cobrav8]

 

So I couldn't resist any longer and finally took the car out tonight for the first time to do some gentle running in and low load fuel learning. All I can say is I'm seriously excited to get this thing ran in and mapped. The torque feels huge and I've not even been pushing the throttle or revs much for obvious reasons!!! Not smiled like this about a car for a long long time!

 

Try loading up the rings with short throttle bursts and engine braking during this process to properly bed in the piston rings. No light load constant rpm running-in on a highway please...

 

We call this 'power seating'  with my race engines that I build(Hayabusa's mainly). Still require a certain amount of idling/heat cycles before we carry this out which is mainly what last night was about. It was previously running that rich I was scared about bore washing it. Now its a little less overloaded with fuel I will get it on my rollers....maybe tomorrow to carry out some power seating etc. 

[1cobrav8]

 

So I couldn't resist any longer and finally took the car out tonight for the first time to do some gentle running in and low load fuel learning. All I can say is I'm seriously excited to get this thing ran in and mapped. The torque feels huge and I've not even been pushing the throttle or revs much for obvious reasons!!! Not smiled like this about a car for a long long time!

 

Whats the expected torque "guestimated" to be from this new beast?

 

Who knows Nev lol, I really don't know what to expect yet. I want over 400bhp and 400nm of tourque but how far over those figures we can go only time will tell. I have all the right bits to make it happen its just a case of finding some time to fine tune it all. If we struggle due to the crappy inlet manifold/IAT's then over the winter i will look to get a billet manifold made that does away with the charge cooler system and diverts the air through a conventional intercooler....that coupled with my MW50 system should be good for 450+bhp. Though I need to spend some serious money on the handling over the winter at the same time!!!! 

[Nev]

What exactly is you business, sounds interesting making Hayabusa engines...

 

[1cobrav8]

https://m.facebook.com/rlmracing/ We specialise in Hayabusa race engines for things like Radicals etc

[Nev]

https://m.facebook.com/rlmracing/ We specialise in Hayabusa race engines for things like Radicals etc

 

Sounds like an interesting job, if you were more local I'd have loved to have a poke around and help out.