613 replies to this topic

[ICD]

 

 

 

Not questioning what is right or wrong, just adding a little balance... South Korea never had a lockdown... just lots and lots of testing and contact tracing with individual isolation where at risk, and now have zero new cases reported.
 

 

 

Yes they caught it early, hindsight being so close to China maybe, seems crazy that we couldnt just have a copy their tests and we had to make our own up. But they are about to have a general Election so was in the governments interest to get it right first time, and if media infoemation is correct or massaged to show a good message, we will never know.

 

 

 

The country with a huge tourist industry.

If they now aren't every going to open their borders, wheres the money going to come from?

 

Mark, I have  no idea, except more loans from the bank of Europe putting the country into even more debt which they will never be able to pay back. Many in the tourist industry do have another income however.

 

Those that dont are being hit hard. Me included. All bookings for our properties in Greece have been cancelled for this year. If you can get there you can have free rent as long as you take some paint and a brush . Its the same for all our Greek friends who do look to help their incomes through Airb&b, diving, guiding, summer tavernas etc.

[Zoobeef]

So why do you think they've done the right thing by suppressing the virus that far?

How can they survive if they can't let anyone into the country again?

[ICD]

So why do you think they've done the right thing by suppressing the virus that far?

How can they survive if they can't let anyone into the country again?

 

The long term view in the country for border control is , and maybe the UK should look at it but the volumes would be a problem, is that at all border controls you are tested or have a valid test certificate from your country of leaving.

 

If "clean" you come in if not, quarentined for 14 days.

 

The Greek health service is superb, but could never be ramped up in the way the UK or other countries have done so by building emergency hospitals etc. So the only way is to control the virus or..

 

Similar if you have a rat problem, close all doors, kill all those indoors, and only open door ensuring no more rats can enter.

 

Challenging for the economy, but maybe the "western world" needs to do a rethink and gear downwards on the greed and Non Social responsibility attitude that we all have become part off. Thats where the state run countries come into their own in controlling their populus, e.g. S Korea, Hungary in general

 

Before Greece joined the EU it could run on its own 2 feet, its only since the early 2000's the country has dramatically changed. e.g Infrastructure.

Before the Athens Olympics it would take anything up to 3 hours just to get out of Athens let alone anywhere else in the country. Now I get over 200klm,s away in less than 3 hours.

The country was very much regionalised.

There is no right or wrong for what is best the past or now, just that the world has speeded up to want things now not tomorrow. Imo Tourism was better before much much slower, with less package tours. For the economy  package tours is what brings in the money.

Edited by ICD, 25 April 2020 - 10:30 AM.

[Zoobeef]

A certificate if you haven't had and are clean is useless. If you have had it and are clean, I assume the certificate will only last a few years (or aslong as the immunity lasts).

Who's going to go on holiday for 2 weeks in isolation?

Countries that have suppressed the virus are going to be left behind by those that have mostly got it over with.

 

You would rather we look at state run countries that control their populous?? WTF, thoughts like that are dangerous to the UK way of life.

[techieboy]

Yes they caught it early, hindsight being so close to China maybe, seems crazy that we couldnt just have a copy their tests and we had to make our own up. But they are about to have a general Election so was in the governments interest to get it right first time, and if media infoemation is correct or massaged to show a good message, we will never know.

 

All of South East Asia had experience with SARS and how breakout viruses behaved in the real world. Their cultures are totally different and accept strict government control much more so than any Western countries.

 

I thought some of SK's testing had now been shown to either i) not work properly/reliably in the first place or ii) worse still, you could get re-infected with COVID after having already tested positive for antibodies previously. Those are some of the tests that we ordered and PHE/SAGE/NHS rejected as not being reliable.

[ICD]

 

I thought some of SK's testing had now been shown to either i) not work properly/reliably in the first place or ii) worse still, you could get re-infected with COVID after having already tested positive for antibodies previously. Those are some of the tests that we ordered and PHE/SAGE/NHS rejected as not being reliable.

 

 

You are correct Techie, but also how some of our tests were taken in the early days prooved invaluable. ( informed by a friend on the front line and had also been tested, coming back negative but later she was to be prooved positive)

 

If asked to have a test, or put your self forward make sure the swabs are taken at the back and highest part of the mouth/throat.

 

i.e. make sure it makes you reach as in gagging, and or the feeling that they are going up your nasel passage. Most unpleasant but effective

Some early test over here were "too polite" so ineffective
 

[jonnyboy]

I think some kind of easing will begin within 2 weeks. Roads are busier. Business are starting to go back. As predicted I'm starting to see local self employed people returning to work (insert going through the motions of PPE/ handwashing) maccy Ds wil hopefully come back soon that will be a watershed moment. Im commencing deliveries of cars soon (never has been against guidelines) we have to find a way to live with this thing. The lockdown will ease if the Government like it or not so might as well try and make it look official.

Boris won’t be in a hurry to ease up, after his near death experience I don’t think he’ll lift the lock down anytime soon.

But how folks manage this is another story.

There's never going to be a definitive lifting of lockdown as such but there will be an easing of restrictions starting small. 2 hours outside.. hopefully you can drive to the coast for a walk without the Mossad tailing you... visit none vulnerable relatives etc.

One thing that's already starting is the unwinding of the voluntary store closures. B&Q started in the week. McDonalds wil open again soon I'm sure.

There are many areas of life that can resume but we must begin a managed steady return and daft as is it we need to sustain a steady flow of new infections in the absence of any cure. I think Zoobeef raised a very interesting and important question for the countries that stamped on it early how the heck do they get started again?

Uk Spain/Italy USA that were a bit useless in the beginning might end up with a bit of an easier time getting going again if its already been through the population.

[Zoobeef]

https://www.telegrap...analysis-warns/

 

Extra deaths not caused by corona but by the lockdown currently at around 10000, about 2000 a week.

 

Remember, stay at home, stay safe 

 

Hindsight I think is going to show what  poor decision was made.

[ICD]

 

You would rather we look at state run countries that control their populous?? WTF, thoughts like that are dangerous to the UK way of life.

 

Mark, not what I said, I would rather that the populus  helped the plan of whatever the country is putting forward and do as requested.

 

In a state controlled country ..ditto except " as instructed", do as we say or else.

 

We will never know if herding or lockdown was the correct way to tackle this. What we do know is , it isnt very nice if you get a sever bout, and without any vaccine (unlike flu jabs are available at least you get a chance) one is at the mercy of the gods.

 

Although I was informed that today that China, or Whuhan, managed to control the virus by having a very strict control and effectively ring fenced the city once they realised they had fecked up. There are probably deaths across China but not in such large numbers nor being reported as C19

 

Some people had already travelled to initially SK and  Europe though hence the quick spread. Italy initially tried the same ring fencing but it was too late and it had escaped

 

I personally dont advocate either herding or lockdown, both seem to work but in different ways.

I just dont know the answer, I doubt if anyone does, but do feel for those that are being hit hardest, it must be very very tough to see the what the future looks like. Stay safe.

Edited by ICD, 25 April 2020 - 08:43 PM.

[casino]

Whichever way we look at it this Miley Cyrus has us by the gonads. And it doesn’t have an iPhone X or do social media. It’s not got a credit score or a good job in the city.

 

We can’t decide to wear masks or not wear masks end lockdown or stay at home. All the king’s horses and all the king’s scientists can’t lay it out on the canvas for a full count. It doesn’t matter how many Labs we throw at it.  This tiny little organisms without a brain is out thinking the smartest brains in the world. 
 

And this is still only Corona version 1.1  I’m off to Den for a large Vodka & Vodka. 

[jonnyboy]

Well our local B&Q having taken the questionable decision to reopen has a 2 hour long queue outside and people walking out with plant pots and bits of wood. 100s of none essential journeys carried out. The lockdown is coming to an end official or otherwise. 

[RC220]

Thanks Casino, I hadn't thought of a vodka and vodka.  Think I'll try that later.  Just a thought guys...no matter how bad we think the UK (and other) governments are handling this...at least they aren't suggesting that we should inject Lysol and stick a torch up our asses.  Everyone is struggling with this but it seems POTUS more so than others. 

 

I was never a fan of the man, but words fail me as to how his ego and narcissism come before the people he was elected to serve. 

 

Things could be worse - he could be running things here.

 

Mind you I think it unlikely he will join this members club as I doubt he could get into a VX.  That is almost a reason in and of itself to keep hold of our little plastic sh#tboxes!

 

Mine is still on axle stands as I had a run-in with kidney cancer at the back end of 2019 and have been out of action for @ 6mths.  But, our fantastic NHS weighed in, did a bit of cutting (I am a bit lighter now - wonder if that will make me faster!) and gave me the all clear at the end of March. The unit that treated me is closed due to the current crisis and I really feel for the patients in the queue behind me given that timing is so critical to outcome. 

 

Stay well and safe guys.  No-one really knows the way out of this but if we look out for the folk around us, even (particularly) the folk we don't know but who live up the road, it will make us better people, the neighborhood a better place and whilst we can't all be Major Tom (I have promoted him I know but what an inspiration that man is) we can learn from this experience and come out of this into a better place.  Sorry for the philosophical babble....I tried Casino's recipe a little earlier than intended! 

 

I'd better start cooking dinner for the kids now while I still can...

Roy  

[casino]

Double Vodka & Vodka for you sir. Line em up as your car is off the road and off the ground. 

[casino]

Is anything else happening in the world apart from the virus?

[Zoobeef]

Reassuring change from the useless "stamp out the virus" mantra to "control the spread".

Difficult to "unlock" now but a step in the right direction. Also, Boris didn't mention, but is being reported (by the guardian atleast) that you can meet up with others but 1 person at a time aslong as you maintain 2 meters.

May well help to save some relationships, too late for Dr Lockdown though.

[rob999]

So basically it’s everyone back to work unless the few who can work from home. Oh and no one to use public transport.

[hairy]

Also, Boris didn't mention, but is being reported (by the guardian atleast) that you can meet up with others but 1 person at a time aslong as you maintain 2 meters.

 

 

So all the MPs can go out and play golf !

[Zoobeef]

A bit more confusion this morning as Raab said you can meet more than 1 aslong as you maintain social distancing.

 

Its a shame there always has to be some confusion.

 

I imagine racetracks will be seeking some clarity this week, if a golf course can open, why can't a racetrack.

[Rosssco]

 
I imagine racetracks will be seeking some clarity this week, if a golf course can open, why can't a racetrack.

 
Because the Facebook "LOCKDOWN NOW" Karen types, and the perpetually terrified millennials will judge it to be too risky and say it will overload the not-currently-overloaded NHS, cost lives, etc. etc.

 

Really though, as long as restricted numbers and no (or well spaced) spectators, dunno..

[coldel]

Everyone back to work, except schools are still closed so you can't if you have children and no one to look after them. Avoid public transport if going back to work. So in effect, any single people that live within walking distance of their place of work, crack on, otherwise as you were. 

 

It is all very vague though, and totally out of line with Wales/Scotland/NI so no idea why he was claiming that he was conferring with the devolved governments because he clearly hasn't. I'm also really confused as to why the other nations are announcing before Boris, surely it's possible for them all to release their statements at the same time via localised TV stations to ensure that we don't get this ridiculous speculation in between Sturgeon making her announcement and Boris making his - I don't think we have ever been such an un-United Kingdom.