613 replies to this topic

[Madmitch]

I'm not a conspracy theorist, quite the contrary, but I do profoundly distrust politicians and I do believe in questioning everything they say as usually what they say and what they do are not the same thing at all.  So, if the answer to my question is that we are to be part of a herd theory experiment then prepare to say goodbye to potentially your parents, uncles and aunts and anyone else with 'underlying health issues', as they put it.  That seems to be an incredibly callous way to proceed even if it shortens the time we will take to get rid of the virus - and having been through all that who is to say it won't come back again and take a second slice of the population and end up taking just as long as it would have done in the first place with all the restrictions.

 

If I was a conspiracy theorist I would have take an Orwellian direction where we might talk about the 'Herders' banging on your front door at dawn to take those whose DNA / genes suggest they could in the future have 'underlying health conditions' or whatever, off to the abattoir before they become a cost or a nuisance to society.  Before you dismiss that as complete rubbish remember that in my lifetime that was the situation here in Europe.

 

So, back to reality, it does seem as if restrictions are now being imposed so perhaps the herd stuff experiment is not to be, thank goodness because in the countries where they really clamped down hard and early they now seem to be getting a grip on the situation and where they were slower and less organised, Italy and the USA for example, it is spreading very fast indeed, more deaths in Italy than in China now.  Keep safe everyone.    

[coldel]

Its hard to put simple actions of politicians down to how the virus spreads globally, I don't think its that linear a process. My friend is Italian and she said that Italy has a large Chinese population, older people generally etc. there could be all sorts of demographic factors to take into account aside from lock downs or whatever. 

 

Boris has been hit and miss, lets not forget he is being told what to do and what to say. Some of his language early on was absolutely atrocious such as informing people in a formal update that we can expect to lose loved ones, we know that, we don't need to hear it from a politician who is so far removed from the everyday person with his inherited mass wealth lifestyle it makes what he says irrelevant in that respect. It has improved of late but having to put up with rubbish now appearing on social media about him being some sort of hero, do me a favour. Cannot believe political points scoring is on peoples agenda on social media right now. 

 

Would be nice to see the other side of all this by July/August, last year it seemed to rain every weekend and I cannot imagine another summer without being able to take the VX out lol 

 

 

[Zoobeef]

I'm not a conspracy theorist, quite the contrary, but I do profoundly distrust politicians and I do believe in questioning everything they say as usually what they say and what they do are not the same thing at all.  So, if the answer to my question is that we are to be part of a herd theory experiment then prepare to say goodbye to potentially your parents, uncles and aunts and anyone else with 'underlying health issues', as they put it.  That seems to be an incredibly callous way to proceed even if it shortens the time we will take to get rid of the virus - and having been through all that who is to say it won't come back again and take a second slice of the population and end up taking just as long as it would have done in the first place with all the restrictions.

 

If I was a conspiracy theorist I would have take an Orwellian direction where we might talk about the 'Herders' banging on your front door at dawn to take those whose DNA / genes suggest they could in the future have 'underlying health conditions' or whatever, off to the abattoir before they become a cost or a nuisance to society.  Before you dismiss that as complete rubbish remember that in my lifetime that was the situation here in Europe.

 

So, back to reality, it does seem as if restrictions are now being imposed so perhaps the herd stuff experiment is not to be, thank goodness because in the countries where they really clamped down hard and early they now seem to be getting a grip on the situation and where they were slower and less organised, Italy and the USA for example, it is spreading very fast indeed, more deaths in Italy than in China now.  Keep safe everyone.    

 

Again, not understanding what the "lockdown" is for. It's still to get herd immunity but over a much slower timeframe to not overwhelm the NHS. Your parents may/probably will still get it but there will be a bed and ventilator available if they do.

In Italy they are prioritising the younger in hospitals as they have a better chance of survival. All this lockdown is doing is removing the chance of the situation where doctors have to make that choice.

It is not a lockdown to go down a different path and stamp out the virus. All that would mean is itll probably come back next year.

 

Look at the list of "key workers" out and about, show me who isnt on the list ffs.

[Madmitch]

I thought the lockdown was to keep people separated so that the rate of infection would be slower thus moving the expected peak forward into the summer and crucially, fewer people would be infected which means fewer deaths, all of which means less load on the NHS.  If you do as instructed and stay isolated then it's highly unlikely that you will be infected but, as I said at the very beginning, in the UK there has not been any compunction to isolate so too many are still out and about undermining any strategic plan about not overwhelming the NHS.

 

In Italy the health system has already been overrun which is why they are saying they cannot treat the elderly and infirm.

 

Nobody has yet worked out how to 'stamp out' the virus, unfortunately.

[Zoobeef]

We aren't on a full lockdown though. 80% of workers are classed as "key workers" for some reason. You are allowed out and about just not in mass gatherings.

Flattening the curve still shows a similar number of infected just over a longer period. Summer months will slow it more and will also give chance to produce a vaccine.

 

Let's not get started on the fact human trials have also started, it's being rushed through at a rapid rate.

Given the mortality rate for my age range I'm not sure what I'd do if I was offered the vaccine over chancing it as a healthy 35 year old.

[coldel]

Keyworkers are everywhere, its just that people do not generally understand it beyond the basics. Take supermarkets for instance, sure the staff in the store are keyworkers but so are:

 

The thousands of suppliers that supply what supermarkets sell

The thousands of drivers that deliver the product across the country

The thousands of vehicle maintenance people that keep the lorries on the road

The thousands of farmers that grow food

The thousands of people that produce product for farmers to use be it seeds to equipment to pesticides

 

Supply chains of product in supermarkets is a complex and expansive thing - most people don't understand it at all yet feel they can stand in a store stamp their feet and tell staff to 'put more stuff on the shelves' - these people are simply morons and I can only ask that if you see one of these morons you tell them to go get fcuked - the problem is not the supermarkets, its the nut jobs that think they need 6 months worth of toilet rolls and that vulnerable people only need 1 roll.

 

Vaccines are preventatives, not cures. What they are trialling is what they will use to protect people next year, my feeling is that thousands of people will die in the UK from this, but the only option is to minimise this by it happening over a longer period of time and maximising the availability of beds etc. The virus is here to stay, people will die from it for years to come but we will all be vaccinated en-masse against it, except for the countries who are living in poverty, they will continue to die from it just as they die day to day from diseases we take no notice of.

 

 

 

 

Edited by coldel, 21 March 2020 - 02:04 PM.

[ICD]

By being an arsehole the nearer to a 24 hour curfew will be placed on the country

 

e.g. Austria

 

e.g. Jordan...jailed for 12 months

 

Dont be an arsehole....

[Zoobeef]

Not going to happen uk wide. Maybe in large cities.

Even now when calls are made to the police, they are questioned about covid and then the urgency of the call is balanced against risk to even bother sending police.

[Denny.G]

https://www.worldome...fo/coronavirus/

Something screwy is happening in Italy

Their quarantine started on 9th March so 3 more days and in theory they should see a huge drop in new cases. What if they don't?

I see the logic in our approach. One interesting thing I heard today on the wireless a GP was taking on 5 live that had actually had the virus (doesn't sound fun she was 60) she commented that the seasonal flu season is done now. I would guess that this is down to the flu jab and herd immunity each year.

A phased introduction of the virus is the only logical thing. Im sure the Government are keeping an eye on the build up and phasing the restrictions in. A test to find recovered people would be useful too.

As a side note I think you have to hand it to Boris I'm certainly no Conservative voter but showing leadership and provided these financial measures come through quickly they are doing the best they can.

If Corben and Abbot had been in charge we probably would all be dead now... without c19!

You've changed your tune.  A few posts back you were quoting flu statistics whilst failing to understand how to correctly interpret them and complaining about 'knee jerk' reactions.

[techieboy]

Not going to happen uk wide. Maybe in large cities.

Even now when calls are made to the police, they are questioned about covid and then the urgency of the call is balanced against risk to even bother sending police.

 

Can't be much virus based drama around here. The missus found a car number plate in some bushes when she was out walking the dog first thing this morning. She decided to report it on 111 and two officers turned up at the house a couple of hours later for exact directions to go and retrieve it. Better service than normal. Poor sods will have nothing to do tonight with Bedford High Street in lockdown.

[jonnyboy]

 

https://www.worldome...fo/coronavirus/

Something screwy is happening in Italy

Their quarantine started on 9th March so 3 more days and in theory they should see a huge drop in new cases. What if they don't?

I see the logic in our approach. One interesting thing I heard today on the wireless a GP was taking on 5 live that had actually had the virus (doesn't sound fun she was 60) she commented that the seasonal flu season is done now. I would guess that this is down to the flu jab and herd immunity each year.

A phased introduction of the virus is the only logical thing. Im sure the Government are keeping an eye on the build up and phasing the restrictions in. A test to find recovered people would be useful too.

As a side note I think you have to hand it to Boris I'm certainly no Conservative voter but showing leadership and provided these financial measures come through quickly they are doing the best they can.

If Corben and Abbot had been in charge we probably would all be dead now... without c19!

You've changed your tune.  A few posts back you were quoting flu statistics whilst failing to understand how to correctly interpret them and complaining about 'knee jerk' reactions.

 

 

I haven't hanged my tune on anything. This is how the authorities are dealing with it and in what they are doing I see the logic and I think they are doing a good job. The fact remains that this variant of flu is still dwarfed by deaths caused by other influenza strains through a typical year. The "crisis" at the moment is of our own making. 

 

I think the post crisis hand wringing period will be really interesting. All the hindsight experts will be out in force.  If it happens again next year we really are fubar! 

[alexb]

It's not an influenza strain. It's a SARS strain. Hence the official name for the virus: SARS-CoV-2. Both SARS (SARS-CoV-1) and this virus are corona viruses. Influenza belongs to the Orthomyxo family of viruses, with specific virus names like H1N1 (Spanish flu) and H5N1 (bird flu). That is what makes it hard to deal with, as it's more or less an unknown. and it's one on top of the other. 

 

Another aspect is that viral mutations happen due to transcription error, but also by combination. Combination can occur when two viruses happen to be in the same cell. Patient has COVID-19 and the flu for example (double lucky). Parts of virus one combine with parts of virus two. Very seldom that will result in another viable virus, it's just that the more this happens, the better the chances of another viable virus with unknown characteristics. 

[rob999]

Well amongst other things, there’s the last time you can go for a blast in the weekend car unless you’re going to queue for some dolmio at Asda....

Edited by rob999, 23 March 2020 - 09:52 PM.

[casino]

Will petrol still be on sale?

[Zoobeef]

Well amongst other things, there’s the last time you can go for a blast in the weekend car unless you’re going to queue for some dolmio at Asda....

 

I'll be using the Noble to go to work, weathers lovely.

 

Will petrol still be on sale?

 

Of course it will. Most businesses are still open.

[MartinS]

We've learnt a lot over the last few weeks about this virus and certainly my view has changed as this ones a grower, nasty, and is with us for a long while, so personally pleased to see things getting a bit more serious regarding staying in. Last weekend was a joke down here on the coast, with everywhere really busy, idiots queuing for food (literally leaning on each other for ages just for some eggs or meat they didn't need) and our area was like Pauls, flooded with non locals, primarily Londoners.

Had no beer in the house (disaster!) so went to get some and of course none left, except, loads of Corona!  People really are that stupid.

 

Time to give the cars some serious loving and prepare for the day we are all let out to play again.  Keep well all.

 

Martin S

 

[casino]

Woken to the sound of essential workers hard at it. The builders here at Rochester Riverside still doing their thing?!?

 

Silly me, it’s essential the houses get built. What a mad mad world. 

[techieboy]

Woken to the sound of essential workers hard at it. The builders here at Rochester Riverside still doing their thing?!?

 

Good. Hope they'll be coming my way soon. We're meant to be having an extension sorted in a months time.
 

[coldel]

It will take a few days for a full understanding, as usual Boris was suitably vague and the implementation done on the fly - I get that its understandable its changing day to day but things need to be clear. Again they have not been. All he said yesterday was people can still go out to work if they cannot work from home, and its essential. What does essential mean? Even the list we got doesn't cover everything. 

 

It will take a few days of dithering and changing minds but we will get there. I can imagine putting a roof back on a building exposed to the elements is essential but starting work on an extension might not be. 

[techieboy]

It's pretty essential our planning permission doesn't lapse and we have to go through that again - which it will in July.

 

But, yes, I'm a little uneasy about it actually starting without any guarantee (as much as there ever is) it will get completed in a timely fashion. Builders have got a dodgy enough reputation for abandoning jobs part way and vanishing as it is. I'd rather they didn't start if there's going to be issues getting supplies of regular materials and the risk of the guys themselves going down with the virus and disappearing for a few weeks. Then there's also the 3rd party supply stuff like scaffolding, concrete, steels, custom windows/doors, skips, etc that might all be interrupted and leave us hanging. As much as the useless conservatory needs flattening, it's at least serviceable currently which it won't be on day 1 of the build when they demolish it.

 

However, I'm also not keen to be the customer that cancels and that puts him and his company in peril, at this time economically sensitive time.